Prediction Thread: When Will Ukraine Conquer Russia

[Bereta_Eder]

I find it amazing in abad way that there are thousands of inoccent people killed right next door and we keep on living like nothing is happening.

It is the same feeling one had during the yugoslav wars. Those were even closer.


amazing. regular people dying for no reason at all

[Ming]

amazing. regular people dying for no reason at all

No, the reason is the power hungry mad man. If somebody is going to do die, it should be him.

[Egbert]

I do not understand why Europe is sanctioning Russia to the point of having an energy crisis. It is not in the interests of Europeans citizens to freeze in winter.

I do note that Russia has enormous reserves of oil, gas, minerals and other resources and I feel rather cynical about western motives.

[Proteus_MST]

I do not understand why Europe is sanctioning Russia to the point of having an energy crisis. It is not in the interests of Europeans citizens to freeze in winter.

I do note that Russia has enormous reserves of oil, gas, minerals and other resources and I feel rather cynical about western motives.

Germany didn't ...
instead, Russia (or rather, GazProm) lowered the delivered amount of gas more and more on its own, claiming defective machinery and lack of spare parts
(which actually was a rather trnsparent ploy with hopes of starving Germany (and other states) of gas).

Fortunately Germany got its gas elsewhere and now has better filled gas tanks than at the same time of year in the years before.
We also have now one or more mobile LNG terminals running and ordered the building of more permanent LNG facilities.

So, at least with regards to gas, Germany may get through this winter (hopefully, other european states as well)

[Bereta_Eder]

we are far more resilient than germany in what regards natural gas
many more routes/alternatives etc

so if germany will survive greece will also have absolutely no problem. and that is good. and hopefully others will be good too. greece can also suppoy the whole of the blakan EU states if need be (and there will be)

However that don't change the fact that europe needs russian gas because it is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more cheaper than ANY other alternative.

and that the US benefits or at least isn't hurting itself at all from the on going conflict.

Don't get me wrong. I believe ukraine deserves to be free and be like I don't know, romania let's say. they are not nasis.

But europe functions out of ideological fervore far more than the US, or ok, if the US also functions on that basis, it doesnt' hurt her nearly half as much as europe.

and for that Merkel is too blame. Her dependency on russian gas has been disastrous. And she was pushing it like there was no tommorow against nearly everyone

[Bereta_Eder]

I understand that her reasoning may have been that interdependent states don't enter into war
but against that policy was the US the european commission as a whole not to talk about the baltic states and poland

the rest of europe was like... err.... you're saying we have as aim to reduce dependence on russian gas but you germany is doing absolutely the opposite and with a vengance.

Now ,merkel was wrong. or she was proven wrong.

I won't say

but I do say that freedom must be defended at all costs.

[Bereta_Eder]

and of course the communist in me jumps up and says an obvious truth.


europe is funding russia's war

I think marx said that the capitalists will sell you the rope with which you'll hang them?

huh....

[Bereta_Eder]

now if you want to take morality completely off it all becomes self evident


germany didn't give a freck about human rights and democracy. cheap russian gas would boost german econmomy and that's all that matters.


US didn't give a rat's ass about freedom. we will keep pusing the nazis in ukraine against the russians until putin breaks and attacks

we'll crew both germany and russia (let ukraineians die who cares)

we'll further isolate russia which is our goal and our strategicl global enemy and cipple germany's cheap gas plan.

[PLATO]

If the alternative here was a hot war with Russia or a cold winter, I would buy a coat. European sacrifice in this regard may keep Russia from being able to fund or expand its war efforts. Victory in Ukraine is essential to prevent a spread of the conflict imho. From what Russian leadership has said, they most clearly have designs on Moldova next. If they absorb Ukraine and Moldova, then we can move on to their leaderships comments about the Balkans and Poland. Megalomaniacs like Putin have to be stopped. No Russian energy in Europe may be harsh, but it looks like it could easily beat the alternative.

[BeBMan]

I do not understand why Europe is sanctioning Russia to the point of having an energy crisis. It is not in the interests of Europeans citizens to freeze in winter.

It's not in Europe's interest to let Russia take territories/redraw borders/attempting to wipe Ukraine off the map by force without any reaction.

[Bereta_Eder]

I actually view this conflict primarily by my friend's eyes who grew up in Greece and experienced democracy first hand (he loves greece, he is greek - and ukranian) and WANTS that for his country of origin. He anbnsolutely hates putin. I mean real hatred.

So I'm sure there are ukranians like him that want just freedom. that see a fork in the road. europe or russia and have decided 100% for europe,

my mind goes back 200 years when greeks were against the mighiest empire of that time and also just wanted that. freedom

[Geronimo]

now if you want to take morality completely off it all becomes self evident


germany didn't give a freck about human rights and democracy. cheap russian gas would boost german econmomy and that's all that matters.


US didn't give a rat's ass about freedom. we will keep pusing the nazis in ukraine against the russians until putin breaks and attacks

we'll crew both germany and russia (let ukraineians die who cares)

we'll further isolate russia which is our goal and our strategicl global enemy and cipple germany's cheap gas plan.

How is this self evident?

With respect to Germany, if all Germans cared about is bottom line economics they would never have shut down their nuclear power to pander to the quasi-religious hang-ups of the Greens. It's painfully obvious that economics is just one of several political levers that manipulates the statecraft.

Also, why would the US (or any distant foreign power) be more interested in local Ukrainian politics and clandestine revolutionary/coup intrigue than would local Ukrainian interest groups?

When was the last piece of evidence for any relevance of Ukrainian Nazis let alone for US support for those Nazis? It may be plausible that the US paid and trained and supported as large a gang of mal-contents as it could dredge up to try to support the coup once it was it was obviously proceeding but to try to create it from pure astroturfing would be insanely risky and laughably unlikely to succeed. The fact that a leaked phone call shows that some in the US government took for granted that the coup makers were behind the sniping only suggests that they could deconstruct motives. Was anything other than the leaked call offered as evidence for outsider involvement with the coup?

There was a coup in Ukraine not because of anybody outside Ukraine but because Ukraine was profoundly politically divided and that made it a powder keg. All the outsiders did was try to find ways to funnel support to the side of the conflict that they favored.

[pchang]

Paiktis is very good at ex post facto reasoning.

[Berzerker]

Victoria Nuland and Amb Pyatt were on the phone picking Ukraine's next leader weeks before the coup

[Bereta_Eder]

pchang attempt to use latin in a coherent way is even more funnier than geronimo's failure to refute eve one of my points.

gifts that don't stop giving

[Bereta_Eder]

what are you? the logical challenged wandering circus of wanders?

[Geronimo]

pchang attempt to use latin in a coherent way is even more funnier than geronimo's failure to refute eve one of my points.

gifts that don't stop giving

It was still an invitation to explain why you believe that only economic considerations matter to the German government and that the Americans only wanted to use Nazis to undermine Russia.