WW2 Soviet Revisionism Has Gone too Far

[Serb]

A pitty imbeciles, who brought it on themselves.

[Broken_Erika]

The storm is coming!

The storm is here, it's called Haribo Sugarless Gummy Bears

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/michaelrusch/haribo-gummy-bear-reviews-on-amazon-are-the-most-insane-thin

[Serb]

[Ted Striker]

I agree with this latest video from MOBIUS on why the Soviets were beneficiaries of German High Command's brilliance at the tactical level but incompetence at the strategic economic level.

The war against the Soviets is often depicted as unwinnable due to endless reserves, but he makes the point that Germans just ran out of oil.

In hindsight, moving the vast resources against Moscow and Leningrad made absolutley no sense.

Should Germany have captured the Cacuasus, they would have denied the same resources to the Soviets, crippling their efforts to wage war, and have the entire resources of continental Europe available to wage war indefinitley.

Soviet commanders were actually pretty smart in this regard and understood the importance of the South and why they defended Stalingrad so fiercly.

A couple of other points he makes, which EVERYONE nowadays downplays:

1) US Army Air Force played a critical role in knocking Germany out of the war by destroying their synthetic oil sources
2) Russia was surviving off of Lend-Lease. This was not due to gross tonnage supplied, but the critical supplies like refined gasoline, food, and locomotives

[Serb]

Cough! Two the same upper posta are "unapproved"

A couple of other points he makes, which EVERYONE nowadays downplays:

1) US Army Air Force played a critical role in knocking Germany out of the war by destroying their synthetic oil sources
2) Russia was surviving off of Lend-Lease. This was not due to gross tonnage supplied, but the critical supplies like refined gasoline, food, and locomotives

1) Wrong! Nobody demise the role of your air raids vs. Ploeshti - that was a strategic goal, but Germans did repair them quite quickly after OUR first airstrikes on Romanian oil fields in 1941. Remind me, when did your airstrikes happen? Weren't they by chance in 1944, when the war has already been decided by the Soviet victories at Stalingrad and Kursk?

edited: Oops! You were talking about syntehic oil plants, not about row oil. My bad! Still the same thing - that was important, but was too late to play a deciecive role.

2) Absolutely wrong! Russia didn't survive because of Lend-Lease, because the first victory over Hitler's war machine was achived at december 1941 at battle of Moscow, when the Lend-Lease didn't play ANY ROLE AT ALL!!!

As for the oil, the USSR did supply itself with his own oil, not the American one. The Soviet tanks were driven by diesel, aside the German tanks driven by benzine, not mention high octan gasoline, mentioned in the video. The high octan gasoline - it is an aviation fuel. And while the American supplies of air fuel did help, they were not as crucial, as you love to think.

The whole Lend-Lease was a drop in the ocean of our war effort!

And you forget the most important thing - the Hitler has declared war on the USA at December 1941, not vise verse!!!

The Germany has declared WAR on you in 1941!!!

And your considerable war effort had appeared only at June 1944 at Normandy, when the outcome of the war was already pretty clear.

And while we were fighting vs. our common enemy, you were just giving us a bottle of water and a towel between the rounds. Period!

That sure helped a lot!!!

But that was us who was fighting YOUR enemy instead of YOU all these years!

[Serb]

Still, I am very impressed, Ted of your desire to learn the true history.

[Serb]

[Serb]

May I can recomend you the Sabaton History chanell with Indy Neidell?
It is a good start for Westerners.

[Serb]

And one more time back to Lend-Lease:



"The Russians paid a price that cannot be measured in dollars," said U.S. Secretary of State Edward Stettinius, who, in assessing the role of Lend-Lease, wrote,

It is the millions of Nazi soldiers killed or taken prisoner, the Nazi tanks turned into heaps of scrap iron on the battlefield, and the guns and trucks abandoned by the retreating German armies.

"We never thought that our Lend-Lease aid was the main factor in the Soviet victory over Hitler on the Eastern Front," noted Harry Hopkins. "It was achieved by the heroism and blood of the Russian army." John Hazard, deputy director of the Soviet department of the Lend-Lease Administration from 1941 to1945, wrote in 1990,

I believe there is now hardly anyone in the United States who would dare assert that the deliveries of equipment and foodstuffs under Lend-Lease were the main factor ensuring the victory of the Soviet people and the Red Army in that war. Nevertheless, the Americans who were involved in Lend-Lease still feel enormous satisfaction from knowing that the cargoes we delivered helped fill a gap in supplying the Soviet people and their armed forces.

As we mark the 65th anniversary of the end of the Second World War, there are a great many different stories in the media with regard to the multilateral cooperation among the nations of the anti-Hitler coalition. Contemporary researchers have shown convincingly that Lend-Lease helped greatly in achieving the great victory of 1945 over humanity's common enemy: German fascism.


It should also be noted that the movement of goods under Lend-Lease was, incidentally, two-way. The USSR supplied the United States and Britain with machine tools, anti-aircraft guns, armament factory equipment, strategic raw materials, and precious metals, while performing such services as forwarding certain military intelligence. From the first months of the war, the Soviet Union shipped substantial amounts of manganese, chrome, asbestos, and platinum to the United States as payment for the goods supplied under Lend-Lease.

http://www.oilru.com/or/43/900/

This is carzy! Whenever I try to bold something while editing my post - the site engine says I am spamming!

[Serb]

And don't even think that your convoys were heading back home empty - theyr were filled with gold and other valuables the Soviet government paid for an American aid:

While repayment of the interest-free loans was required after the end of the war under the act, in practice the U.S. did not expect to be repaid by the USSR after the war. The U.S. received $2M in reverse Lend-Lease from the USSR. This was mostly in the form of landing, servicing, and refueling of transport aircraft; some industrial machinery and rare minerals were sent to the U.S. The U.S. asked for $1.3B at the cessation of hostilities to settle the debt, but was only offered $170M by the USSR. The dispute remained unresolved until 1972, when the U.S. accepted an offer from the USSR to repay $722M linked to grain shipments from the U.S., with the remainder being written off. During the war the USSR provided an unknown number of shipments of rare minerals to the US Treasury as a form of cashless repayment of Lend-Lease. This was agreed upon before the signing of the first protocol on October 1, 1941, and extension of credit. Some of these shipments were intercepted by the Germans. In May 1942, HMS Edinburgh was sunk while carrying 4.5 tonnes of Soviet gold intended for the U.S. Treasury. This gold was salvaged in 1981 and 1986.In June 1942, SS Port Nicholson was sunk en route from Halifax, Nova Scotia to New York, allegedly with Soviet platinum, gold, and diamonds aboard; the wreck was discovered in 2008. However, none of this cargo has been salvaged, and no documentation of its treasure has been produced.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease#Repayment

[Serb]

So, you were making money, as always.

And now, decades after, you are trying to shout out some kind of nonsense like this:

"Hey, look I was in the corner of Khabib and gave him a bucket of ice between the rounds, so that is me who has defeated McGregor, not him!!!"

[Serb]

Have a nice day!

[Ted Striker]

Christer Bergström also dispels this really bad myth that the Soviets had it so much worse than everyone else and the east was where the "real" fighting took place.

We should actually thank the French, Belgians, and Nederlanders for absorbing so much damage:

A comparison between the loss relations during Operation Barbarossa and the German Western Campaign in 1940 shows that the Germans actually inflicted higher losses on their Western enemies, in relation to their own losses, than they did to the Red Army. The relation between total casualties were 19 to 1 in favour of the Germans during the Western Campaign, and between 3.2 to 1 and 4.8 to 1 in favour of the Germans and their allies during Operation Barbarossa.

19 to 1 Serb! You can't deny it.

https://www.historyextra.com/period/second-world-war/operation-barbarossa-9-popular-myths-busted/

[Serb]

Have a good night, Ted! I am sleeping now.

"Enemy at the gates" is a lying crap and an isult to the memory of our grandfathers, and my own grandfather particulary, because he was there at Stalingrad.

[Serb]

You know I became mad and over emotional, when it comes to things like that.