We lost

[Bereta_Eder]

huge,
So huge there are national general elections coming up.

I hope Greece will not return to the nationalistic nepotistic corrupted past.

But if that's what the people want, that's what they'll get.

[Bereta_Eder]

The conservatives won with a margin of 9%.
A miscelaneous riff raff of extreme right wingers, junta nostalgics, neoliberals corrupted mafia goons.


The traditional socialists also won huge.
The left wing lost. 4 years of impementing harsh measures took its toll. Did people really forget how it was back then?

Do they need a reminder?

The chief proclaimed snap elections. The left wing and the socialsts need to team up against the conservatives

On a good note the nazis/golden dawnists went down the tubes. FLush

[Proteus_MST]

In germany the 2 traditional parties lost by a large degree: CDU lost ~8 Percent Points and SPD even lost ~13 PP
Large winner ist the Green Party with > +10PP

I guess the loss for the 2 parties may partially have to do with the CDUs support for Article 13 and also with a Video that the Youtuber Rezo published last week, where he attacked CDU (but also partially the SPD) for their lack of action regarding climate change, income inequality and other things (the big thing is that Rezos video is well researched, with lots of original sources, and almost all through fact checkers, some little nitpickings aside, agree with the basic points he presents in the video)

I generally like our results, especially the losses for the CDU (for their support of Article 13). The only small thing I dislike is, that the AfD also made gains by 3 PP, turning them into the 4th strongest party of the elections (but they still just got ~10%, whereas the other 3 parties have ~63%, so the AfD influence in the europa parliament won't be too big)

[Dr Strangelove]

The EU is kaput. Soon. Soon.

[pchang]

The people have spoken, the bastards.

[Bereta_Eder]

They don't know what's in store for them. By the time they find out it would be too late

but yes


they have spoken

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMV2ud3uypU

[Bereta_Eder]

Ok since proteus offered reasons why the big parties lost from my part I think syriza lost becasue:

_of the former yugoslav republic of macedonia issue. Syriza accepted the name North Macedonia for our naighboors. It also accepted their admission to NATO and the EU. This has costed it all of northern Greece that don't want anyone else using the name Macedonia. I do accept that as an objection. However the altierbative would be for FYROm to be completely conquered by Russia (hay some might think that was better) and divided between albanians and slavs and made a black hole of drugs, forced prostitution and violence. Syriza stopped that. But ok,

_immigration. It is in the ideology of Syriza to support immigrants. People maybe think differently. However it also assured an accepted peace in heavily burdened neighborhoods. I remember how it was with the conservatives, with nazis roaming the streets and with violence from immigrants and from nazi greeks. When insecurity ruled. I guess Greeks want that back. They have it.

_securing a universal health care demands high taxes. Taxes are isnansly high but this is because
a) a conscious decision th fund health care for all
b) various social welfare programs and to fight tax evation
c) that's what the creditors demanded

_surpluses of 5%
that is simply inhumane and no gov. can withstand it. At least syriza mitigated the effects. People want the conservatives throwing people under the bus... they're welcome.


My prediction: the conservatives could win. And then the whole country will burn.

[Bereta_Eder]

That is to syriza's right.
To syriza's left we lost because

_We made a conscious decision to keep the country in the eurozone.
Syriza does have communist background but people forget that it's not euroasian but firmly european communist.

I personally view the EU as something extremely familiar to me, manageable and all in all beneficial for Greece despite the shortcomings that allowed that piling up of debt.

We could screw the whole thing over but we did not, considering the well being of the average Greek. Standing against finding scapegoats and for finding solutions and common ground.

They wanted us to destroy the eurozone/europe and going it alone. Like Venezuela. Or Iceland. We are neither.

[Dinner]

The EU is kaput. Soon. Soon.

We can only hope.

[pchang]

There is a contradiction in thinking that the EU is undemocratic and then thinking that the results of an EU election will result in big changes.

[Dinner]

I don’t recall ever saying such a thing. I do recall saying we can only hope that the authoritarian and anti-democratic EU will go the way of the dinosaurs.

[Bereta_Eder]

The EU is far from kaput. The rise of the far right wing is something to concern us. For the outsiders the only thing that changed is that the british will now join the long queue of arabs africans and americans waiting at the customs and passport lines to enter.

[Meticulous Man]

This thread reminded me that I was handed the following piece of paper/info by protesters outside the Greek embassy earlier this spring. The text is from way before I first stumbled across GWOOL.

[Bereta_Eder]

Yes of course in the balkan wars greeks captuded nearly 70%-80% of the territory of ancient macedonia, with the rest going to serbia and a tiny part ot bulgaria.
Of coruse it's not a bloodless gains. Wars have been faught over it.
However if there was no solution skopjie would turn into a black hole of crime. Noone wants a black hole of crime right next to their borders. It took decades to stabilizae albania.
Mayny (all?) nothern greeks disagree that;s why they pulverized the leading party.
There is no going back now though. This deal I think is for the benefit of the region. And it was also oportunistic for many reasons too.
These people accept that they have nothing to do with ancient macedonians with greeks greek language etc but they want to call themselves macedonians.
By denying them access to european and euroatlantic institutions we were basically condemning them to split to their two consituent enthic groups. slavs and albanians.

[Bereta_Eder]

Ok I now also read the full text on the macedonian struggle.

It gets very high points for romantic nationalistic evoking literary feelings.

it leaves a part out.

We won.
Maybe it's time we're being magnanimous about it.
Also yes skopjians they are descentants of bulgars their language is in fact bulgarian yet they don't want to be part of bulgaria, Imagine that. I guess the bulgarian scheme collapsed.

Anyway there WERE slavs of macedonia, erveryone knew it it was a common secret. Just as there are vlachs who are allegendly descentants of roman soldiers and arvanites who everyone knows descent from albanians but if you tell them they're not "greek" they'll punch you in the face.

Truth is, we are the main powerhouse of the balkns always have been. We have a responsibility towards stability and helping. We can't do that if we want to kill everybody/destroy everybody that isn't us

[Bereta_Eder]

Now if we could foir a bit live in today:

there are some strange people up north.
we forced them to change their flag
we forced them to change their consitution
we forced tghem to change their name
we embargoed them
we conquered them completely through trade/exports/services
half of them speak greek
they can be overrun in 2 hours by the greek army
we have in frecking fact charged with overseeing their air space, greek military planes fly over that country
bulgarians don;t move and keep quiet
serbs don't move and keep quit

I believe it's fair to say we have won
I believe it's fair to say it'w orth backing up a bit