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  • To change, or not to change

    ...that is the question, regarding (stuff from) the past. Meaning: how far should we go when removing things ppl regard as wrong today? Let's look at some examples....


    1.) Charlottesville, IIRC a Lee statue? Remove? Keep? Other?

    I can't really say how serious ppl feel about this guy in the US, I just remember during the debate around the right wing rallye some historians explained in the media that those statues are mostly not a civil war thing, but were often done later to be a dick towards black ppl?

    IIRC some said the right place for it today would be a museum that adds background info.

    2.) There are cases in Germany where church bells produced between 1933-45 have swastikas. One made headlines recently because in some kind of guerilla ops one of these bells had the swastika removed at night by some unknown guy.

    TBH, unless they proudly display such a bell in a "Look at our great nazi stuff!" fashion I am not sure removing a symbol that is (I understand) not at public display is the most pressing issue regarding racism/xenophibia/extremism today

    3.) Editing old literature for certain words. I think certain words (like uhh starting with n) have no place in new writing/print. But should reprints of famous older stuff edit them out (IIRC Mark Twain, Astrid Lindgren for example)?


    Sowhatdouyouthink?
    Blah

  • #2
    I feel it should be left up to locals to decide. Just my take.
    Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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    • #3
      WRITE SOMETHING

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      • #4
        No, to all.
        Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
        "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
        He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

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        • #5
          Originally posted by SlowwHand View Post
          No, to all.
          A clear and indisputable answer on question 1 :

          1.) Charlottesville, IIRC a Lee statue? Remove? Keep? Other?
          Texan logic at it's best
          With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

          Steven Weinberg

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          • #6
            1) yes, remove them - there is something unseemly about rubbing the noses of black people in "southern pride". That goes double for confederate flags.

            2) yes, same reason - out of respect for the victims and their loved ones. Bell makers need work too.

            3) no, dont mess with Mark Twain - not quite analogous, I can avoid reading a book, I cant unsee statues and flags or unhear a bell

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            • #7
              They're all a reflction of history.
              To Kill A Mockingbird has been discussed for banning, along with Mark Twain.
              Ridiculous.
              Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
              "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
              He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

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              • #8
                Originally posted by SlowwHand View Post
                They're all a reflction of history.
                To Kill A Mockingbird has been discussed for banning, along with Mark Twain.
                Ridiculous.
                We can disagree about how history should be told without disagreeing that it should be told.
                Click here if you're having trouble sleeping.
                "We confess our little faults to persuade people that we have no large ones." - François de La Rochefoucauld

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by SlowwHand View Post
                  They're all a reflction of history.
                  To Kill A Mockingbird has been discussed for banning, along with Mark Twain.
                  Ridiculous.
                  Next Discussion: Ban all History and Bury the Historians.
                  I am not delusional! Now if you'll excuse me, i'm gonna go dance with the purple wombat who's playing show-tunes in my coffee cup!

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                  • #10
                    In a few more years it won't matter. The only real choice will be between Google VR and Facebook VR. (Perhaps some other VR platforms.) VR platforms will use your personal data to predict which things would offend you and which you would enjoy, and thus modify your view of the world to fit your view of the world. Does that bell have a Nazi symbol on it? Depends who is looking!

                    So ... I'm all for tearing them all down, or not. Techno-fatalism solves everything.
                    "tout comprendre, c'est tout pardonner"

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Berzerker View Post
                      ...

                      3) no, dont mess with Mark Twain - not quite analogous, I can avoid reading a book, I cant unsee statues and flags or unhear a bell
                      I more or less agree.
                      Pieces of literature always are a reflectionof the times/society they were written in.
                      Altering them may destroy a part (nuances/variations) of its meaning

                      I am not against making new edited editions for pöieces of litzerature. But they should always just be available in addition to the originals ... and not replace them.
                      With other words, I am not opposed if there were
                      Tom Sawyer (political correct edition)
                      available for sale, as long as I can still buy
                      Tom Sawyer (original edition)

                      But I would be opposed if Tom Sawyer (political correct edition) would replace Tom Sawyer (original edition) on the book market.

                      I also think that students in literature classes (at least in higher classes) should always work with the original editions
                      When people ask you what happened tell them the north remembers.
                      Tell them, winter came for House Frey.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Aeson View Post
                        In a few more years it won't matter. The only real choice will be between Google VR and Facebook VR. (Perhaps some other VR platforms.) VR platforms will use your personal data to predict which things would offend you and which you would enjoy, and thus modify your view of the world to fit your view of the world. Does that bell have a Nazi symbol on it? Depends who is looking!

                        So ... I'm all for tearing them all down, or not. Techno-fatalism solves everything.
                        All are beliefs are learned at some point. So if everything is VR, who gets to make that initial impression and what it is? Will they just duplicate it from our parents or use norms determined by the times?
                        Will people vote on the norms or will politicians decide? Or are we talking skynet?
                        It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
                        RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Aeson View Post
                          In a few more years it won't matter. The only real choice will be between Google VR and Facebook VR. (Perhaps some other VR platforms.) VR platforms will use your personal data to predict which things would offend you and which you would enjoy, and thus modify your view of the world to fit your view of the world. Does that bell have a Nazi symbol on it? Depends who is looking!

                          So ... I'm all for tearing them all down, or not. Techno-fatalism solves everything.
                          What if I enjoy being offended? Will I see swastikas eveywhere?

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                          • #14
                            watch neo-Nazi rallies

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by spambot View Post

                              What if I enjoy being offended? Will I see swastikas eveywhere?
                              Find the WW2 mod "Escape From Castle Schweinstein"
                              I am not delusional! Now if you'll excuse me, i'm gonna go dance with the purple wombat who's playing show-tunes in my coffee cup!

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