Non-western concepts/ideas/ideologies that have a positive global impact?

[BeBMan]

There's a lot of "western"* stuff that had/has global impact. Liberal democracy to give a very simple example - dev'd by old Greeks, given modern form in the US and Western Europe. Then you got capitalism/market economy, which is today almost globally accepted. In between there are a lot of political/other concepts/ideologies/whatever that reached every corner of the globe, for better or worse.

Rule of Law? - Greek/Roman roots IICR
Liberalism? - Western Enlightenment
Communism? - Dev'd by a Kraut under the impact of industrialisation/capitalism in England
Nationalism? - in modern form mostly a child of the French Revolution, spread from there, today a replacement ideology/religion in China/Russia

Big question: is there anything of similar impact that has not originated in the west? I'm not big on East Asia/India, so I dunno about that. The only bigger ideology that has global reach now seems to be jihadism, but that's hardly positive.


Just to get 3 things out of the way:

1. [Gepap]I disagree with the notion of the "west" as some kind of unified bloc[/Gepap]

-- fine, but not relevant here

2. [Ellestar]"western" stuff is all evil! Think fascism/colonialism and whatnot![/Ellestar]

-- fine, I'm not claiming everything "western" had always a positive impact. Some of it had tho. Some of it also changed - for example nationalism in a pure "self-determination" sense may be fine, and has been a progressive element during the 18th/19th century, when pro-national sentiment stood contra old monarchic rule. However, when nationalism becomes a tool to put ppl against eachother it's not progressive/positive

3. [Whoever]Are you sayin' westerners dev'd all the good stuff and others are inferior???[/Whoever]

-- nopses.

[Dinner]

Mostly just religious ideas and most of them millennia ago.

[pchang]

Actually, Communism (at least the "From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs" part) was really developed by the Chinese over 2000 years ago. You should look up "Datong" philosophy.

[Aeson]

To sum up:

[Lorizael]

Buddhism has had an influence that I don't think should be discounted. There are some important mathematical ideas that originated in the far east. If we're talking technologies/inventions, then gunpowder and paper from China certainly have to rank.

[Buster Crabbe's Uncle]

Also, spaghetti.

[Elok]

Christianity was not, originally, a Western religion. Monotheism in general may well have had its origin in Persia. Now, if you want to argue that either or both was/were a net minus, feel free, but bear in mind that most of our beliefs and values are heavily influenced by Christianity. Also, OP mentions communism, which has, to put it mildly, a rather mixed track record.

[Lorizael]

What is the West?

[Dinner]

Historically it was the Catholic/Protestant world. How to include the Orthodoxed is where it gets fuzzy though thry are clearly a closely related group.

[Elok]

What is the West?

A concept you had no problem with when you were talking about Buddhism and math a few posts up. No fair retreating to terminological agnosticism now.

[Lorizael]

A concept you had no problem with when you were talking about Buddhism and math a few posts up. No fair retreating to terminological agnosticism now.

I think there are easy clear cases but it gets muddled in the middle. I mean, Greek philosophy seems pretty clearly one of the roots of Western culture, but then the Eastern Roman Empire/Byzantium/Orthodox Christianity in the same geographic area might not be Western? I'm not saying that's wrong, just that it demonstrates it's not a clear cut thing.

[Aeson]

The question of what the West is, is interesting. It seems that we pick and choose who/what we associate the West with more based on what makes us feel good about ourselves and allows us to look down on others rather than any clear line of tradition.

Lest we forget, it was the ancestors of the West that did their damndest to wipe out the traditions we associate with classical Greek thought, while the Muslim world and some small pockets of Chritianity kept various aspects of it from being lost entirely, eventually bringing that spark back to life in the West. It’s always been opposed by some factions, and much of the time its supposed adherents only pay lip service to it while pursuing their diametrically opposed ends. Currently a large portion of the West is either standing idly by while it is crushed again, or cheering on its destruction.

[Aeson]

Though the thought of Trump as Plato’s Philosopher King makes it all worth it.

[Elok]

I think there are easy clear cases but it gets muddled in the middle. I mean, Greek philosophy seems pretty clearly one of the roots of Western culture, but then the Eastern Roman Empire/Byzantium/Orthodox Christianity in the same geographic area might not be Western? I'm not saying that's wrong, just that it demonstrates it's not a clear cut thing.

The West = Catholic or post-Catholic Western Europe, its predominantly white former colonies, and (the tricky part) whichever cultural or racial antecedents a historian chooses to identify as vital, based on fairly arbitrary criteria. So the ancient Hebrews are not The West despite their enormous contribution, partly because they're not exactly white and partly because secular-leaning historians prefer to emphasize Greek rationalism, which is what you call the nontheistic beliefs of a people who routinely practiced magic. Celts? Not until they assimilated to the winning side, I assume. Likewise pre-Christian (but not modern, post-Christian) Norway. We don't count because we rejected Catholicism and something something Oriental Despotism.

[BeBMan]

Actually, Communism (at least the "From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs" part) was really developed by the Chinese over 2000 years ago. You should look up "Datong" philosophy.

Interesting, I didn't know he came up with this. But then it seems a bit of a stretch to define this *alone* as communism, which is solidly grounded in Marxism, later Marxism-Leninism. Unless Datong also came up with the ideas of specific class interests, class warfare as the main dirver of hstory, an overall deterministic view on history with the historic mission of the working class to name just a few core elements of communist movements aroudn the world.

The main non-western modification would be Maoism, who basically adapted Marxism-Leninism for China, and gained some ground beyond for a while.

Buddhism has had an influence that I don't think should be discounted. There are some important mathematical ideas that originated in the far east. If we're talking technologies/inventions, then gunpowder and paper from China certainly have to rank.

Oh certainly. If we include other fields, like tech/invention or cultural or religious things the picture would change quite a bit. Certainly monotheist religion or writing etc. are not of western origin.

But I'm not trying to declare all kinds of achievements a western thing, or deny the role of others when they're not western. That's not important to me at all.

The examples I gave are mostly economic/political models widely used today (or at least for longer periods, like communism). Often we like to think of stuff like "rule of law" or "rights" or "liberal democracy" as *the best* or even *universal*, even when they are de facto not (at least not universally agreed - I'd still argue that they are better ways to org. societies than other concepts). What would be interesting to me is to find out wether some of these things are still around and have similar global impact when western countries are not as dominant as they've been over the last couple centuries. I for one plan to reincarnate in 300 yrs to see how things played out

Also, OP mentions communism, which has, to put it mildly, a rather mixed track record.

Sure. As said, not claming it's all positive - the utopian ideas turned out to be pretty bleak in practice.

Also, spaghetti.

I left out cuisine on purpose because Italy would win everything