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  • Trump pouring gasoline on the fire.



    Demonstrations and violence

    Israel and Palestine





    Palestinians burning American and Israeli flags.




    Demonstrations in response to the announcement were not large and violence was minor.[40][38][39]

    Four Palestinians were killed in clashes following the announcement. Two protesters were shot near Gaza's border fence on December 8, while Israeli military claimed it had shot towards dozens of instigators of riots, where participants were involved in burning tires and stone-pelting. Two Hamas members were killed in Israeli airstrikes on December 9 on Hamas facilities in response to a rocket attack from Gaza. 15 people were injured in a strike that hit a military facility per Gaza Health Ministry.[56]

    Masked Arab men threw stones at a bus after peaceful protests in the Wadi Ara region, injuring three people. Defense Minister Avigdor Lieberman in response, called for a boycott of Arab businesses in the area. He also stated that the Arabs of the area shouldn't be considered a part of Israel. Israeli-Arab politician Ayman Odeh compared Lieberman's call to Nazi boycott of Jewish businesses.[57] Additional protets were reported throughout Israel.[58]

    An Israeli security guard was stabbed and critically wounded by a Palestinian near Jerusalem's central bus station on December 10.[59] On December 11, the Israeli Defense Forces reported that two rockets were fired into Israel from the Gaza Strip. As of December 11, there have been three rocket attacks since Trump's announcement.[47]

    About 100 Israeli Arabs protested in front of the United States Embassy in Tel Aviv on 12 December chanting "Trump, Israel, Jerusalem is Arab. Jerusalem is Muslim" and holding signs saying "Trump's decision violates international law" and "Hands off Al Quds." They were joined by lawmaker Aida Touma-Sliman.[58]Muslim world

    Following the announcement there have been demonstrations in Iran, Jordan, Tunisia, Somalia, Yemen, Malaysia and Indonesia.[49] Demonstrations and clashes continued on December. Demonstrators hurling rocks and bottles clashed with Lebanese security forces using tear gas and water cannons outside the American embassy near the Lebanese capital Beirut.[47]

    Hundreds demonstarted outside US embassy in Amman, demanding its closure and the expulsion of the US charge d'affaires from Jordan.[60] Thousands demonstrated outside the American embassy in Indonesia's capital, Jakarta.[27] On December 10, tens of thousands protested in the Moroccan capital of Rabat.[61]

    On December 11, Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of Lebanese Hezbollah, said the organization would once again focus on Israel and the Palestinian cause. He urged Arab states to abandon the peace process and called for a new Palestinian uprising.[62] The same day, thousands of Hezbollah supporters demonstrated in Beirut, chanting "Death to America! Death to Israel!" while waving Palestinian and Hezbollah flags.[47]

    Thousands of Hezbollah supporters in a Beirut rally demonstrated and chanted "Death to America!" and "Death to Israel!" A few hundred Iranian conservatives rallied against the US decision in Tehran, playing music with addition of lyrics like "the US is a murderer", "Palestinian mothers are losing their children" and "Death to America".[63]

    The Taliban and Shia extremist leaders likewise expressed their opposition.[64]ISIL issued a response on December 8, which mainly focused on criticizing other jihadist groups and Arab leaders. They accused rival groups of politicizing the conflict to serve personal agendas and argued for the defeat of Israel's Arab neighbors who, according to ISIL, "surround [Israel] the same way a bracelet surrounds the wrist, protecting the Jews from the strikes of the mujahideen."[64]Other nations

    Protesters gathered outside the US embassy in Hague on December 8 and chanted anti-Israeli and pro-Palestinian slogans. The protesters issued a joint press statement calling Trump's decision "against political, diplomatic and moral values". They further claimed that it was no surprise that Trump who was "known for his Islamophobia, xenophobia, racist and populist discourse and marginalization" made such a decision.[65]

    1,200 anti-Israel and anti-American protesters protested outside the Brandenburg Gate in Berlin, near the US Embassy. On December 10, around 2,500 demonstrators marched throught Berlin's Neukölln district and burnt flags with Star of David. Eleven people were detained and cited for criminal offenses. The burning of Israeli symbols was condemned by German leaders.[66]

    Thousands protested outside the US Embassy in London on the same day, with organizers claiming that there were 3,000 protesters and shouting pro-Palestine slogans. Protests were also held in cities of Manchester, Bristol, Birmingham, Nottingham, Dublin, Belfast and Londonderry.[67]

    Hundreds of Muslim attended the Friday prayers outside the White House in respond to calls by American Muslim organizations. They wore Palestinian keffiyeh or colors of Palestinian flag, with protesters holding placards denouncing Israeli presence in East Jerusalem and West Bank.[68]

    Protests were held against the decision in Times Square, by hundreds of pro-Palestinian protesters who gathered on the sidewalk of the Seventh Avenue. Some pro-Israeli counter-protestors also gathered nearby. Some pushing and shaving was reported as the two sides faced off at various points. One person was detained by the police.[69]

    During a protest in Stockholm on December 8, an Israeli flag was set on fire.[70] During a protest march in Malmö, Sveriges Radio reported that the demonstrators had shouted "We have announced the intifada from Malmö. We want our freedom back, and we will shoot the Jews."[71][72]

    On December 9, a dozen men hurled Molotov cocktails at the Gothenburg Synagogue. No injuries were reported, and those inside the building hid in the basement. The incident followed a pro-Palestinian protest.[73] Three people were later arrested over the attack. Prime Minister Stefan Löfven and other top politicians condemned the attack.[74] On December 11, a chapel of a Jewish cemetery in Malmö was made the target of an arson attack.[72][75]

    During the demonstrations in many European cities and New York, demonstrators used an Islamic antisemitism chant "Khaybar, Khaybar, O Jews; the army of Muhammad will return." The chant is used to mock the Jews for the defeat of Jewish tribes by the Islamic prophet Muhammad during the Battle of Khaybar and is used for calling for violence against them.[76][77][78] Anti-Semitic chants like "Death to Israel" and "Slaughter the Jews" were also heard during protests in many European cities.[79]
    What a ****ing idiot.

  • #2
    He said it's for peace
    Blah

    Comment


    • #3
      Gee Palestinians chanting Death to Israel and Americans... Launching rockets into Israel... protesting...
      So what's new?
      They've been doing this since the State of Israel was formed.
      It's not like they have seriously talked peace ever.
      Last time I checked, their mission is to destroy the state of Israel and push all the Jews into the sea.

      While I'm not sure I agree with his decision... they are no closer to a peace accord than the day the nation was formed.
      Maybe this will change the equation... probably not, but what the hell.
      Keep on Civin'
      RIP rah, Tony Bogey & Baron O

      Comment


      • #4
        When I first heard it, I too though, is he on crack or what.
        But if you go back and review some of the history, Maybe it's not as dumb as it looked. Not that I think the dumpster understood those nuances.
        And yes, what was currently being done wasn't working.
        So I'll reserve judgement on this a bit first.
        It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
        RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O

        Comment


        • #5
          This is all pretext. Trump doesn't care about changing the embassy. He cares about saving his own ass. To him, Israel is nothing more than a hot button, and he's more than willing to push it. Consequences be damned.

          Trump wants a war. He doesn't care if it's in the Middle East or North Korea. In both areas, he's using rhetoric to bait and goad someone into firing first.
          Then he can go all GWB on us, send in the troops, and start accusing his accusers of being traitors and terrorist supporters.

          Anything to make the Mueller probe go away.

          Just watch.
          Apolyton's Grim Reaper 2008, 2010 & 2011
          RIP lest we forget... SG (2) and LaFayette -- Civ2 Succession Games Brothers-in-Arms

          Comment


          • #6
            The only thing that will make the Mueller probe go away is it's conclusion. And if Mueller get's removed, somebody else will continue...
            It ain't going away, war or no war.
            Keep on Civin'
            RIP rah, Tony Bogey & Baron O

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by -Jrabbit View Post
              This is all pretext. Trump doesn't care about changing the embassy. He cares about saving his own ass. To him, Israel is nothing more than a hot button, and he's more than willing to push it. Consequences be damned.

              Trump wants a war. He doesn't care if it's in the Middle East or North Korea. In both areas, he's using rhetoric to bait and goad someone into firing first.
              Then he can go all GWB on us, send in the troops, and start accusing his accusers of being traitors and terrorist supporters.

              Anything to make the Mueller probe go away.

              Just watch.
              Jep,
              someone seems to be quite afraid, considering how much the GOP/right wing propaganda, aimed at discredititng the Mueller probe, has stepped up in the last couple of months
              Tamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
              Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"

              Comment


              • #8
                AS I said, I have no illusions on his intent. I was more interested in the act itself. While it seems to be overwhelming decried as not helpful, I'm just wondering if it's all negative.
                Nothing else has worked. No peace treaty has even come close to being signed. Maybe this becomes a real bargaining chip for a new process. Just saying.
                The already hate each other. Just how much more hate is this going to create.

                This was the article that got me thinking a bit more about it. Yes, it's from the tribune which does lean a "little" to the right but it's worth consideration.



                Some critics of President Donald Trump’s recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital fear it will enrage the Muslim world. Others claim it will offend our European allies who continue to maintain their embassies in Tel Aviv. Both are possible.

                But it’s easier to read the past than predict the future. So let’s look at the issue from the perspective of a football referee.

                After a questionable call on the field, the football referee watches a replay and then sometimes announces: “Upon further review, the ruling on the field is overturned.”

                Here, then, is what I believe a referee would say about Jerusalem’s status as capital upon watching a replay of Middle East history.

                In 1967, Jerusalem was a divided city. Israel had the western part, which was mostly Jewish. Jordan had the eastern part, which was Arab.

                Then the Jordanians got greedy. They joined an alliance of Egypt and Syria that declared the hour of Israel’s destruction was at hand. Terrified of having to fight on three fronts, the Israelis begged the Jordanians to stay out of the war. But blinded by the prospect of having all of Jerusalem, the Jordanians attacked the Israeli portion.

                That backfired. The Israelis counterattacked and captured the Jordanian portion (while also defeating the Egyptians and Syrians). With East Jerusalem came the Western Wall, a remnant of the ancient Temple of Jerusalem. It is Judaism’s holiest site, and the Jordanians had refused to let Jews worship there.

                Overjoyed that Jerusalem, the biblical King David’s capital, was again theirs, the Israelis hoped that it would be belatedly recognized as their modern capital. But it was not to be. The United States said: “Not so fast. Until Jews and Arabs hammer out a peace treaty, we’re not going to recognize Jerusalem as Israel’s capital.” Other nations followed suit.

                Israel was willing to trade the Arab territory it had won for a peace treaty. Moshe Dayan, Israel’s defense minister, famously said: “I’m waiting for the phone to ring.”

                But instead of calling, the Arab nations issued the Khartoum Declaration, famous for its three noes: There would be no negotiations, no recognition of Israel, no peace. At that point, the logical thing for the United States to do was to say: “We tried our best, it didn’t work, so we’re getting out of the business of telling other countries what their capital can, or cannot be.”

                Instead, our country stuck to its guns of what had to happen before it would acknowledge that Jerusalem was Israel’s capital. To win America’s blessing, the Israelis had to make peace with Arabs who refused to make peace with them. If that’s not a mission impossible, what is?

                Rarely, if ever, does the losing side get to determine the postwar arrangements, especially if it was the aggressor.

                But in this case, diplomats accredited to Israel have played a time-consuming charade for 50 years. Their embassies are in Tel Aviv, but to transact even a trifling piece of business, they have to travel to a government office in Jerusalem.

                Why? Because their governments don’t allow them to recognize something as obvious as the nose on their face: Jerusalem is Israel’s capital. If it’s not, why do they drive there so often?

                Yet the standoff continued. Israel says Jerusalem is its capital. Other nations say it isn’t, and justify that sleight of hand by pinning it to hopes for peace in the Middle East. Their argument goes something like this: The Palestinians also want Jerusalem for their capital. By claiming Jerusalem is already its capital, Israel has trashed the Palestinians’ dream. That’s why peace has yet to come to the Holy Land.

                That theory was put to a test in 2000. As his presidency was winding down, Bill Clinton brought the Israelis and Palestinians together in an attempt to break the deadlock. The Israelis offered to give up the West Bank and again split Jerusalem in two. The Palestinians could have their capital there. That was a bold gesture because it meant the Western Wall would again be under Arab control.

                But Yasser Arafat turned the deal down, saying there never was a Jewish temple in Jerusalem.

                Yet among the evidence to the contrary is the Gospel of John, 10:23: “And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon’s porch.”

                Arafat was calling Christianity a pack of lies. So you might expect European nations to reply: “We’re not going to back your position on Jerusalem if it means denying our religious beliefs.”

                But they didn’t. So the game continued until Trump said the United States would no longer play. For all the wordy explanations and denouncements of his action, what he did was quite simple.

                He put the ball on the field back where it should have been, essentially saying: “By rule, to the victor go the spoils.”
                It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
                RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O

                Comment


                • #9
                  There are a lot of things to point out which Trump has done wrong. This is not one of them.

                  Frankly, the Palestinians, like most Arabs (hell, most Muslims really), while keep act like animals no matter what so **** them. They need to know that the longer they refuse to make peace the more they lose. Frankly, every last Muslim in Israel should simply be deported to Jordan and the British Palestinian mandate was already partitioned into Arab and Jewish homelands and Jordan was the original Arab homeland area in British mandate Palestine. They already have their state and they all need to be forcibly deported to it.
                  Last edited by Dinner; December 15, 2017, 15:44.
                  Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    *sigh*

                    Such simple matters. Earthly worries. POWAR AND GLORY LOL!

                    I'm hungry. Time to get out of bed. *stretch*

                    Sent from my HTC Desire 626 using Tapatalk

                    The Wizard of AAHZ

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by rah View Post
                      AS I said, I have no illusions on his intent. I was more interested in the act itself. While it seems to be overwhelming decried as not helpful, I'm just wondering if it's all negative.
                      Nothing else has worked. No peace treaty has even come close to being signed. Maybe this becomes a real bargaining chip for a new process. Just saying.
                      The already hate each other. Just how much more hate is this going to create.

                      This was the article that got me thinking a bit more about it. Yes, it's from the tribune which does lean a "little" to the right but it's worth consideration.

                      http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/c...207-story.html
                      The problem IMHO is both sides.
                      Example, at Camp David Israel wanted to include a land swap as part of the 2 state solution ... they would retain the major settlements and would offer some of their territory to the palestinians in exchange.
                      But actually, what Israel offered in exchange for the fertile territory (which was annexed for said settlements) was infertile desert territory.
                      It was only natural that the palestinians refused this deal (and, as laid out, it wasn't the "generous deal" that israel propaganda wants people to see it)

                      And of course, expansions of settlements continues, often by annexing additional territory that was in possession of private palestinians ( and alsocutting off lots of palestinian villages from each other (as each settlement also has "secure highways" for israelis to use, which palestinians can only cross after passing a checkpüoint (meaning that, for example, farmers in one village might only be able to go to the market in the next village after a wait of several hours at one (or more) israeli checkpoints (or not at all, if the checkpoints are closed) ... the whole westbank is crisscrossed by these secure highways.

                      Palestinian children learn about the whole of Palestine without an Israel ... likewise proponents of the israel settler movement preach of an Eretz Israel ... a Great israel with the palestinian territories, just without any palestinians in them.
                      And of course, the palestinian terror attacks (and their subsequent glorification of the terrorists as martyrs) also doesn help ... and paints them in a bad light ... and often is followed by israeli retaliatory strikes, in which more palestinians lose their lives than Israelis in the terror attacks).


                      IMHO neither of the 2 sides can be trusted with being unbiased stewards of the Westbank (and Gaza strip) ... I think that the only real step towards a solution can lie in some independent party (UN, or USA (better not USA alone ... while conquering is their thing, peacekeeping is not one of their strengths)) occupying these territories and taking over the government of the region (building up an independent palestinian government without roots to the former terrorist oirganisations)
                      Last edited by Proteus_MST; December 14, 2017, 14:00.
                      Tamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
                      Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'm a firm believer in no more expansion of settlements and that they should deal some of them back. Yes both sides are to blame but both sides have to agree that the other has a right to exist before anything is ever going to happen.
                        It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
                        RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by rah View Post
                          I'm a firm believer in no more expansion of settlements and that they should deal some of them back. Yes both sides are to blame but both sides have to agree that the other has a right to exist before anything is ever going to happen.
                          Exactly.
                          And I guess most "ordinary" palestinians and most "ordinary" israelis actually harbor no ill will towards each other ...
                          but on both sides the hardliners have a lot of control over their government (admittedly in the palestinian territories even more than in Israel ... going so far that critics of palestinian terrorism are actively subdued and threatened or even beaten up (or are shut out from social welfare) ... making it a big problem for palestinians in Westbank and Gaza to, for example, go on the street in demonstrations against terrorism by their brethren)
                          Tamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
                          Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            admittedly in the palestinian territories even more than in Israel
                            That's usually why I'm more likely to take the side I do in these arguments. I feel if it came down to it. One side would deal in good faith, not so much the other side. But one can only hope.
                            It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
                            RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              More victim blaming by leftists.
                              I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                              - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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