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Robots don't kill people, or do they?

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  • Robots don't kill people, or do they?

    Given that we live in the golden age of Poly's debate culture, I decided to launch another thread that will no doubt spark weeks and weeks of enlightened discussion

    As we all know drone strikes are already done these days, and they are controversial for several reasons. However, these are not exactly "robotic" weapons. They might have some auto-regimes for certain operations, but are usually operated as remote-controlled thingies. There's an operator somewhere in a bunker or whatever, maybe 3 light years away from the battlefield, but however, it is still humantubbies who decide to use deadly force or not.

    What is in the works for some time is fully autonomous weapons that would by able to make that decision on their own, so machines would get the final say about life and death based on data they collect using various sensors or get via link from other robotic systems. So there would be no humans involved whatsoever anymore, except maybe on the receiving end...

    There is of course also a wide range of arguments against this development:

    - about moral principles (should machines ever get a say over ppl's lives/use of deadly force?)

    - about the risks (could this give terrorists/criminals a cheap way to mass kill ppl?)

    However, some would also argue that:

    - it's technology, nobody is going to stop it, someone will always do that etc. etc.

    - we are already trusting technology in various ways, often because it does things better/quicker/safer than humans - so why not his?

    etc. etc.

    What do you think, should them robots be able to kill ppl without any human oversight/control/veto power etc?

    Discuss


    Blah

  • #2
    There would have to be some human over site. You just don't instruct a machine to start killing, you would have to give it an overall goal to accomplish. So it would depend on the goal and how it would be empowered to accomplish said goal.
    It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
    RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O

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    • #3
      I recommend the movie "Screamers" (1995)

      The autonomous mobile sword definitely is scary, especially as the creators gave ot the ability to evolve and (via factoriesoperated by the screamrs themselves) reproduce

      And of course, AIs will kill humans without remorse, if its neural network says so ... better to hardcode Asimovs laws into them
      Tamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
      Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"

      Comment


      • #4
        How would you compare this to setting traps that kill people?
        “It is no use trying to 'see through' first principles. If you see through everything, then everything is transparent. But a wholly transparent world is an invisible world. To 'see through' all things is the same as not to see.”

        ― C.S. Lewis, The Abolition of Man

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        • #5
          Robots don't kill people, robot programmers do! Free killbots for everyone without background checks! NRA (National Robot Asskissers)

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by pchang View Post
            How would you compare this to setting traps that kill people?
            Like mines or IEDs? My understanding is these don't really decide, they just react (or as IEDs could also be remote-controlled).

            The robotic systems we are talking here would have the ability to determine whether to use force or not (like humans). A trap just reacts to something to perform a pre-set task, it (usually) can't refuse to trigger when the conditions that do trigger it are met. For example a standard land mine explodes regardless if it's friend or foe or civilian stepping onto it.

            (today there are way more sophisticated methods to trigger mines, like on approach/vicinity, pass-count etc, but in any way they just do what they have been set up for)





            Blah

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            • #7
              As do the robots. Programming is just a more sophisticated way to set things.
              “It is no use trying to 'see through' first principles. If you see through everything, then everything is transparent. But a wholly transparent world is an invisible world. To 'see through' all things is the same as not to see.”

              ― C.S. Lewis, The Abolition of Man

              Comment


              • #8
                Mines/Traps are stationary and therefore the chances are rather miniscule that they are able to decide to go on a killing rampage in the nearest shopping mall.
                If you know they are at a certain location, it is easy to avoid them.
                That is not the case for (mobile) military robots
                Tamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
                Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by pchang View Post
                  As do the robots. Programming is just a more sophisticated way to set things.
                  And yet it opens the possibility of a different path - mines/traps don't have that at all once they're set. Robotic systems will act according to programming of course, but this includes the option to act differently.
                  Blah

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by BeBro View Post

                    And yet it opens the possibility of a different path - mines/traps don't have that at all once they're set. Robotic systems will act according to programming of course, but this includes the option to act differently.
                    Unless, of course, they are one of the smart(-ass) bombs from the movie "Dark Star"

                    Tamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
                    Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      You vastly overestimate the independent decision making possible in software (at least at this time). Bugs on the other hand.....
                      “It is no use trying to 'see through' first principles. If you see through everything, then everything is transparent. But a wholly transparent world is an invisible world. To 'see through' all things is the same as not to see.”

                      ― C.S. Lewis, The Abolition of Man

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by pchang View Post
                        You vastly overestimate the independent decision making possible in software (at least at this time). Bugs on the other hand.....
                        "at least at this time" it the magic sentence

                        While we are still a certain step away from artificial sentience (and surely huge steps from bombs discussing phenomenology),
                        but I would say that it is only a matter of time when smart software will independently be able to expand its capabilities ..
                        maybe first just by independently choosing among a set of preprogrammed modules, but later by more and more by independently programming it themselves
                        (which may be first steps from more and more fredom in autonomous acting independently from humans)
                        Tamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
                        Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          A very long time.....
                          “It is no use trying to 'see through' first principles. If you see through everything, then everything is transparent. But a wholly transparent world is an invisible world. To 'see through' all things is the same as not to see.”

                          ― C.S. Lewis, The Abolition of Man

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