"**** you, I'm Millwall": The Curious Case of Mr. Roy Larner

[Elok]

It's awkward when heroes are horrible people. Think of Jefferson, or Sherman, or Nelson. But it's interesting to learn that football teams have political implications in the UK. No such thing over here. Sort of like the Blues and Greens in Justinian's day?

[Dinner]

If he did the act then the medal is in recognition of that act. Yes, he sounds like an asshat but politics shouldn't enter into it. Even BNP supporters can earn medals if they do the feat needed to earn them.

[Dinner]

He started the whole thing off by him spitting at the (black) photographer, telling him to "**** off to your own country cos ****s like you stink of ****".

He also repeatedly stated "National Front", a right wing fascist party (incidentally with historical connections/membership amongst Millwall fans)

I thought National Front was French? Le Pen and all that.

[Dauphin]

I found it impossible to discern anything he said from that. It was all bleeps.

Now, we all know over here what Millwall means, and it may well be the case that this bloke is not exactly a model citizen, but there's something off about the way his alleged character is more important than the fact that he almost certainly saved many lives that feels ....well, a bit off.

Character - and the Millwall quote in particular - is important, as it demonstrates motive. I recognise his actions as saving lives. I don't think he should get a medal for valour, heroism or courage because I don't believe he was doing it for valorous, heroic or courageous reasons.

If someone wants to give him a medal for "saving lives", then that's great. Although you'd probably have to give one to all servicemen and women, firefighters, police officers, doctors/nurses etc. Maybe "saving lives at the risk of ones own" could narrow that pool a bit.

[Dauphin]

I thought National Front was French? Le Pen and all that.

There is a UK version. The UK probably has more fascist parties than any other country in the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Front_(UK)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_fascist_parties

[Dauphin]

It's awkward when heroes are horrible people. Think of Jefferson, or Sherman, or Nelson. But it's interesting to learn that football teams have political implications in the UK. No such thing over here. Sort of like the Blues and Greens in Justinian's day?

Historically you also have religion as well - [Glasgow] Rangers, the Protestant team, and [Glasgow] Celtic the Catholic team have a rivalry going beyond just being the top two clubs in Scottish football. Elsewhere, Tottenham are perceived as having a Jewish identity.

Football has a lot of problem with racism - arguably more than many other sports. There is also a lot of homophobia - to the extent that I can't think of an openly gay footballer in the English league, and can only think of one in the last 30 years. It's also had a history of hooliganism that other sports have not suffered anywhere near as much.

All in, football would appear to bring out some of the less tolerant and more tribalistic tendencies of people. Sounds like politics to me.

[Uncle Sparky]

Unknown to Elok, in Canada and the US there are sports teams with degrading names and symbols, - Cleveland Indians, Washington Redskins, etc.. that are very political.

[Bereta_Eder]

most heros are *******s.

during the liberation struggle nearly ALL heros were *******s.


"normal" people drink their pint and try to avoid being killed and of course sacrificing themselves from soneone else (unless it's family maybe)

it takes a waack to do something about it

that guy will never get a medal because the medal would go to someone who is on tape saying racist things.

it will go if he says "I didn't really meant it I was drunk"
which was probably the main driving force of his "heroism" to begin with

[The Mad Monk]

Unknown to Elok, in Canada and the US there are sports teams with degrading names and symbols, - Cleveland Indians, Washington Redskins, etc.. that are very political.

Political in what way?

[Bereta_Eder]

Videos like this wouldn't help either....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ogfKr1jFsw

Some random thoughts after watching that video:


1) You can't be a racist and wear pink shorts. This violates several cosmic principles.

2) He has a lispe(?) wears pink shorts,takes out two big dogs for a walk looks like goofy. He is a racist but a debile racist. This makes him slightly less repulsive

3) There were very few people really in that demonstration. It's like some friends gathered for coffee but said, it's boring drinking coffee again let's go protest brexit impropondu.

4) The highlight of the video is when the red bus almost run him over


That was an inescapably odd video for many reasons


It reminded me of two old ladies with handbags, one wearing pink shorts and being a guy

[Elok]

Political in what way?

Whenever there's a very, very slow news day, somebody suggests they should change the name. Then fans of the team say hell no, they've been the InsensitiveNames forever and like doing the Big Heap Powwow Dance after every touchdown, etc. Then somebody halfheartedly suggests that perhaps there should be a boycott or something, but nobody takes them up on it because Americans believe in their sports teams far more than they believe in any religion. Then something actually newsworthy happens and we forget the argument again.

[Lorizael]

I'm a Redskins fan and I think the name should be changed. It's clearly offensive to some, you can understand why, and changing the name has basically no downside. If you (general you) were only rooting for the team because their mascot is an insensitive moniker for Native Americans, I really don't understand how you think.

[Elok]

Oh, I see no reason why the name shouldn't change. The Bullets turned into the Wizards back in the nineties, and it didn't mean much beyond new merch. Then again, I'm totally indifferent to sports. Other people hold on to the tradition not because they're just wild about insulting Native Americans, but because they grew up rooting for the whatevers, maybe doing some tacky Indian-themed gestures, and they don't like the idea of this tradition changing even if it's stupid and demeaning. Also they dislike the idea of being seen to give in to pressure and implicitly admit that they were guilty of doing something wrong all those years they were singing "braaaaves on the warpath!" In this respect, it is like the statue thing, because at least a few people want the statues to stay (AFAICT) primarily because the statues have always been there and people freak out about change.

However, at no point has fandom for any team been associated with a political stance in itself (that I know of), which makes this quite different from what our Brit posters are telling us about Millwall.

[giblets]

Offer him a medal, on the condition he accept it from a black dude

[Dinner]

I'm a Redskins fan and I think the name should be changed. It's clearly offensive to some, you can understand why, and changing the name has basically no downside. If you (general you) were only rooting for the team because their mascot is an insensitive moniker for Native Americans, I really don't understand how you think.

I have a better solution. If you don't like it then do not buy a ticket. Problem solved.