I miss the times, when we had MBT threads.

[Proteus_MST]

Oh, really?

You want me to tell something about rusty American nukes?
The most modern Minutemen-3 ICBM, you have in your inventory right now, was commissioned under Reigan in 80's. I repeat - the most modern ICBM you have right now is about 35 years old piece of metal, not to mention its design, which still uses 3 inches floppy drives to launch. While we have a whole f*cking NEW GENERATION of ICBMs at out disposal.
Same goes for American SSBNs which are a generation behind from ours, especially considering their outdated missiles.
And don't even start me to tell about the air component of your nuclear triad! Because its based on B-52, the most modern bomber of the model was commissioned in a f*cking 1962!!! I wonder how that rusty pieces of metal are still flying! A dozen of B-2 you have can carry only free-fall nuclear bombs (by my guest for our SAMs or interceptors). Same goes for dozens of B1b you have.

Summary:
You are even in a WAYyyyy more deep sh!t when it comes to nukes, then when it comes to tanks.

The modernization doesn't matter ...
both, you as well as the murricans, have the nuclear firepower to bomb each others civilization back into9 the stone age many times over.
And AFAIK neither of you will be able to prevent a retaliatory strike by the other side if they start a nuclear war.

So it still will be mutually assured destruction

[Serb]

see the reply below

[Serb]

It's good to see we have risen a good Communist change for us, though they are still below the level of Russian spetznas.

[Serb]

Proteus, I'll reply to you funny crap later, 'cause I'm out of beer and need to refit my inventory.

[Serb]

You Germans sometimes are as funny in your bullsh!t, as Americans!

[Serb]

The modernization doesn't matter ...
both, you as well as the murricans, have the nuclear firepower to bomb each others civilization back into9 the stone age many times over.
And AFAIK neither of you will be able to prevent a retaliatory strike by the other side if they start a nuclear war.

So it still will be mutually assured destruction

Yep, but they have absolutely not grounded illusions that they can win a nuclear war vs. us, if they strike first. That's the reason they build their anti-ballistic infrastructure near our borders (to intercept our missiles, survived their first strike). That infrastructure is in fact has double purpose and have both defense and attack capability depending on the loaded missiles.
So, we have to react!

And about "modernization doesn't matter" - say it to Serbia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and the rest of the countries you, the West have destroyed, because they were weaker then you and because your master have told you to do so.
Tell me, please, as a German, do you like to be a slave of Americans?
You are a proud nation, a nation of f*cking wariors, to whom we fought for centuries.
How is it to be a slave now?

[Serb]

Now, I am back, as you can see (not only you westerners have uber) and can reply to your original post.

[Serb]

Soviet threat?

Yes!
I have used the word "Soviet" for a purpose, because for you and your media (who puts bullsh!t in your heads) - we are all Russians, be us Armenians, Ukrainians, Kazakhs, Jews, etc. That is more accurate to call all us "Russians", instead of "Soviets", but your media always keeps "Soviet" in their heads, when they say "Russian".
Don't tell me that's not true!

Well, at the time when there still was a"soviet threat" germany had 1800 tanks.

Good for you! And we had about 30 000 tanks of way superior design (not like in 1941, we learn our lessons hard after anytime you (the West) invade us) vs. your 1800, so f*cking what?
The fact is, that now you have 200+ tanks in your entire tank force, which is a generation behind.
It's a a joke, really!
If you had something like twenty T-14 (as you have claimed we have in ours) you would shouted it out loud at every God damn corner that, you have upgraded your tank force to 10% with unbelievable, next generation design, nobody else has and will have not for the next 20 years. That would be ok, if you did so. But, you didn't, 'cause you have no such design. T-14 is a f*cking "hello, from the next century!!!". None of you Westerners can match it up! The most important thing about it is that it's a part of network warfare conception we have implemented in metal. You were talking about that conception for at least a decade, but we are the first who brought combined arms to the next level.

And the last tank that was in development to counter a "soviet threat" ws the PzKW 2000 (which actually would have incorporated a 2 man crew in the tanks hull, similar to the Armata (and that as already before the 1990s).

Where is it now? Yow know, if I start talking about all the amazing prototypes we had back then, that would take hours!
The question is - what is in serial production!

But the soviet union was disbanded more than a quarter century ago and in the wake of inreasingly friendly relationships between europe and the countries of the former USSR (including russia) the german government decided to vastly reduce its tank forces and also put the concept of the PzKpfW 2000 on ice (and instead decided to prolong the lifetime of the Leopard 2 by further upgrades), especially considering that even 9/11 and the increasing threat by terrorists (and the demand for peacekeeping operations) wasn't present in the 90s and a large military force therefore was seen as unneccessary

facepalm!
You (the West) have reduced your conventional forces, because they are expensive and you thought you don't need such an expensive army to crush and pillage the natives and to some extend that was true, until Russia have re-appeared on the global stage. You just thought we, Russians, would die anyway on our own, but you were wrong as always.

And yes, the Leo 2 Revolution was already presented in 2011 ... and the german army didn't order any of them ... because it was very expensive and they got their job done very well with the already existing Leopard 2A5 and Leo 2A6.

The combat experience of the Turkish Leos in Syria is a disaster, so your strategists were damn wrong!

The MBT Revolution was revolutionary already then, but we don't order expensive MBTs just to reserve some bragging rights.

There is nothing revolutionary about that, it's just an upgrade of already existing hardware (though a good one, but it's not a revolutionary design like Armata is).

Period.

The job that was to be done by our Leopards (around 2011) was just peacekeeping operations (like in Afghanistan) ... for which, as said, the Leopards 2A5 and 2A6 were sufficient (if you have to fasten 1 million screws ... what would you give your workers? A simple normal screwdriver for 0.5 € apiece? Or a High Tech sonic screwdriver that costs 1000 € apiece and actually doesn't get the job done faster, but has hundreds of additional functions (which, for simply fastening a screw, however, would be unneccessary)

Excuse me? You call an invasion, an occupation - a peace keeping operation? Are you nuts or something? The peace-keeping operations:
a) sanctioned by UNCS
b) doesn't last for decades
As for your question - you are good for fighting tribals, but not so good when your entire West combines its effort to destroy us. We always kick your western asses and you still can't understand why! While the answer is so simple!!!

n 2011 we still falsely believed that Russia (under Putin) was a trustworthy ally and would respect treaties.

A typical Western lie and a bul****!
We had none ally responsibilities.
We have never broke any international laws and treaties aside you, when you have started a joint aggression vs. Serbia.
You have started expansion of NATO long before 2011 or even 2007, when Putin have warned you to do not so.
That was us, who falsely believed that since we have dismantled Communism, accepted democracy and free market - we could become friends with the West. During decades after - you have proved us to be so f*cking wrong! You don't want us as friend, you need us to die or be your slaves, once and forever. And when we finally got your message, we have reacted.

What the f*ck else did you expect?


You don't wanna us as a friend, you wanna kill us or at best keep us as slaves - that is not gonna happen, f*cking western idiots!

We kill you instead, even if we die during the process, because we just cannot let it be the other way!

(like the one where Russia would guarantee/respect Ukrainas borders in exchange for Ukraina giving up its nuclear weapons) and the borders of its neighbors.

Firstly, that memorandum have never been approved by the parliaments of any sides, who have signed it, including your master - US of A.
So, it's just a f*cking piece of paper.
Secondly, there was a vote and the people of Crimea THEMSELVES decided their own fate (especially when you have overthrown the legal government in Kiev).
Thirdly, if you are a sane person and at least knows a beat about the situation over there, you should know that the absolute majority of Crimeans are HAPPY to be in Russia! That after three years after the referendum, all your western polls show the same results - 95% for!
Fourthly, the most important thing - that was absolutely illegal from the jurisprudence point of view, when Crimea was given to Ukrainian USSR in 1956, as well as it was no less illegal, when the Crimea have entered Ukraine in 1991. Especially when it comes to Sevastopol, which was the same subject of Soviet federation as Ukraine or any other republic or a city of federal importance like Moscow or Leningrad.

In 2014 we have just corrected injustice done in 1956 and 1991.

Simple as that!

As we now know this was a false hope ... and considering how things changed (with russia again being a possible threat) germany (and other european states) again are in the process of increasing their military spending (and developing their MBT forces ... both, in term of numbers and also in terms of technical sophistication).
Therefore also the MBT Revolution now has become viable again ... not for peacekeeping operations, but in order to incrase the combat power and deter people like yourself, who still dream of the past "soviet glories", from thinking that (just like it were the soviet plans in the 80s) you can just steamroll the western european states and then rule over all of europe

Oh, man! We have never wanted to steamroll the Europe! When we have crushed Napoleon, did we stay in Paris?
When we have took Berlin during the 7 years war, had we stayed there?
Weren't that us who free willingly left the East Germany while the West Germany, who have consumed it while still being in the opposite military alliance known as NATO, when the other side - USA didn't?

WAS THERE ANY F*CKING REFERENDUM ABOUT EAST GERMANY JOINING THE WEST?

NO!!!

And you know about that!
So, how the f*ck you could accuse Crimeans for choosing their fate in an absolutely democratic way, while you did not during your own unification?
You think what a Germans can do, the Russians can't, because in one case its ubermenches and in another untermenches?
Then you are a nazi, my friend.

Do you really f*cking need us to split you once again?


REALLY???


Now, PLEASE, hear me once again, because now I speak for all of the Russians:

We don't want to conquer you!

We just don't want to do so (facepalm)!

We are the largest country on Earth! We just don't need anymore land or population. Anything we want and always wanted - that is

you to left us alone,

to let us develop the country we already have!!!

The concept of olympic games / large scale competition among several countries was stolen from the greek ... and the concept of a tank was stolen from the british which on their own stole it from Leonardo da Vinci

You are evading the answer to my question.
We have started such kind of tank competitions long before the West did and always invited the Western countries to participate in a such competitions with us - to find out whose tank school is better, but you have always refused. Why?


I'll tell you why - because you knew perfectly that even your new designs will lose in a competition with our T-90, T-80 or even the last modifications of T-72!

But now we have T-14 and you suck balls really deep!

[Serb]

As for the tanks, just trust me, I have seen how our Omsk tank plant (which is a long time bankrupt, according to your Western media) is working 24/7 upgrading our tanks to the newest modifications and that's started long before the Crimea, because we have seen where the f*ck it goes to.
YOU have forced us to re-arm ourselves.

And now we are ready to fight, aside you!

You proved us, that you can't be trusted and when it comes to Europe, you proved to us that you are no longer independent, that you are just vassals of your beyond the pond master.

Just tell me, as a German, how do you like the situation when any American soldier of the occupation forces stationed in your country for over half of the century, could rape you sister or doter for free?

How is that to live with that knowledge?

That one day your mother, doter, your sister or your wife return home after being raped by American soldiers and there will be no any punishment for the rapists, because they are Americans who officially occupy your country.

Tell me!

I really wanna know what is it to a be slave (and a happy slave, if you ask me), because that's something I have never experienced and never will.

[Serb]

You will lose, as always!

[Elok]

As any direct armed conflict between Russia and the West would be highly likely to escalate into a nuclear exchange, this seems irrelevant. Or are you arguing that, if each of us gave our respective tanks to the leaders of two impoverished countries to fight a proxy war with, your puppets would totally kick our puppets' asses?

[Lorizael]

Or maybe some sort of single combat fight between champions. Trump and Putin both get in their respective country's best tank and duke it out. Winner gets the world.

[Serb]

That's very funny :ironic:

[Lorizael]

Yeah I know with them being besties why would it even happen?

[Serb]

As any direct armed conflict between Russia and the West would be highly likely to escalate into a nuclear exchange, this seems irrelevant. Or are you arguing that, if each of us gave our respective tanks to the leaders of two impoverished countries to fight a proxy war with, your puppets would totally kick our puppets' asses?

Something like that, but with this thread I just wanted to state the obvious fact - Russia has the best MBT with Armatra and our competitors are light years behind.

How it will be implemented on the battlefield and what exactly benefits we will get out of that - it is an another story.

[Serb]

Yeah I know with them being besties why would it even happen?

Who told you it would?

Donald Trump is not an idiot, no matter how your media tries to portray him so.

He does look like a clown, but he won the elections and if he did so - he is a smartass, if you ask me!