The problem with Industry 4.0 is not primarily financial

[BeBMan]

With Industry 4.0 standing for everything that has to do with replacing human work by robots/computers/AI etc.

Universal basic income might work to deal with the financial side, but even if it does the question remains: What the heck will most ppl be doing with their time when there's no work?

Of course a more positive outlook would be the StarTrekkish one: ppl don't work for money anymore, but to "improve" (themselves, and society/environent/whatever), or to be creative (artists) etc...

But how likely is it that large parts of the pop will do that instead of sliding into boredom/passivity/drug use/an endless quest for cheap entertainment/or making nonsense (imagine hordes of ppl with access to alcohol or other drugs and nothing to do - sounds rather like a socially explosive mix) to break out.

Feel free to restore my faith in humanity

[Proteus_MST]

With Industry 4.0 standing for everything that has to do with replacing human work by robots/computers/AI etc.

Universal basic income might work to deal with the financial side, but even if it does the question remains: What the heck will most ppl be doing with their time when there's no work?

Of course a more positive outlook would be the StarTrekkish one: ppl don't work for money anymore, but to "improve" (themselves, and society/environent/whatever), or to be creative (artists) etc...

Actually Star Trek contradicts itself with regards to the non exitence of money.
I remember that in Star Trek II or III McCoy bought glasses from an antique shop for James T. Kirk.
If there is no money, how can he buy something ... and how can something like a "shop" exist?

But how likely is it that large parts of the pop will do that instead of sliding into boredom/passivity/drug use/an endless quest for cheap entertainment/or making nonsense (imagine hordes of ppl with access to alcohol or other drugs and nothing to do - sounds rather like a socially explosive mix) to break out.

Feel free to restore my faith in humanity

If everything that can be done by humans (including rsearch and other creative skills) can be done by AI, I would assumee that this AI also possesses artificial sentience.
In this case I wnder how long it will take till the AI will decide that humans are just useless wasters of space and wil try to erradicate it (akin to the Cylons o the Terminator) ... or turn them into useful sources of powerr (like in Matrix)

I would guess that even a certain amount of jobs will last till the future ... and, despite the universal basic income allowing yoou to live a life at a certain living standard, those jobs )that cannot be done by robots/AI) will give you additional pay ... and therefore, people (who possess the necessary mental skills) will have an inentive to do this work.
(although the masses probably ctually will live in leisure, with the comfort level that the basic income allows)

[Aeson]

Well, it's not like people aren't already doing all that ... though it will get a lot worse.

I think UBI is a poor solution. We can always leave some jobs to be filled by people, and there will be demand for goods and services provided by humans, more along spiritual/social lines than anything to do with being productive/efficient. Look at organic movement for example.

Even a pure broken window fallacy has only upside at that point.

It doesn't have to be 40 hour work weeks for 40 years. Just a couple years doing something that interests you to give you some grounding, character building, and qualify you for retirement and give you access to the orgy holodeck.

[pchang]

The real problem with Industry 4.0 is that artificial intelligence is moving towards something that we cannot easily understand. The big break through in the last 5 years or so is in what is called Deep Learning - which is a a slight variation on teaching AI to teach itself. The problem is that it is becoming increasingly harder to get those AIs to explain why they made the decision they did. We only know that it worked or was a very good decision (often better than a person would have made).

[Dinner]

I am a pessimist. I think most people, free from constraints, will become selfish and self absorbed.

[BlackCat]

I am a pessimist. I think most people, free from constraints, will become selfish and self absorbed.

Yeah, it could even be so bad that they would consider introducing bad health care a prudent thing to ..... oh, wait

[Aeson]

Humanity can now stop wasting time with long walks on the beach ...

[Lorizael]

If the worst problem humanity has is that people get lazy and self-indulgent, I think we can live with that.

[Aeson]

Well, self-indulgence can definitely get out of hand. You could find yourself in hand to hand combat with drone mech-lions for a decadent populace who have gotten bored of virtually killing people, and tired of the tech-singularity cult preachers.

[rah]

While I'd like to think the best of people, masses of people sitting around with nothing constructive to do is a recipe for some bad things based on what we've already seen.

[Lorizael]

Yeah, but humans doing the same **** they've done for fifty thousand years also seems to be pretty ****ing terrible, given just a quick perusal of, like, any history book. Life is pain. Maybe let's try a different variety of pain that also happens to involve nobody needing to work themselves to death just to survive.

[Aeson]

There is middle ground ... we don't have to have soul-sucking jobs for 8+ hours a day for 40 years, but we also don't have to eliminate all personal responsibility (in regards to how to achieve consumption).

[Lorizael]

The middle ground is probably also awful. We're not well equipped to predict the long-term consequences of changes this vast and complex. Maybe super-intelligent AI will be?

[rah]

I'm a firm believer in "idle hands are the devils playground"

While working people to death is not the most desirable, at least it keep them busy.

[Dinner]

The middle ground is probably also awful. We're not well equipped to predict the long-term consequences of changes this vast and complex. Maybe super-intelligent AI will be?

I, for one, welcome our new Cylon overlords.