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The Nate Silver Take-Down

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  • The Nate Silver Take-Down

    As a baseball fan, I'm a longtime fan of Nate Silver. His contributions to a deeper understanding of a highly random, nuanced game through insightful statistical modeling are undeniable and admirable.

    When he ventured into political poll meta-analysis and predictions at his website, www.fivethirtyeight.com, it put a similarly new spin on politics. He has a pretty strong track record in this area overall (ask any Romney fan). But this year's ongoing analysis has been full of odd results, and Nate's reactions in interviews have been a bit on the testy side.

    Following is an analysis of Nate's analytics by a UIC statistics prof. Yes, it's long, and yes, it's from the dreaded Huffington Post. But it's a great read for stats nerds. Maybe greater after the election results are done.

    Posted as a public service..

    I’m A Stats Prof. Here’s Why Nate Silver’s Model Was All Over The Place.
    538’s presidential model is built in a sub-optimal way. It’s at once far too complex, while also making basic errors that have thrown its projections out of whack.
    11/08/2016 04:02 pm ET

    By: Dale Rosenthal
    Clinical Assistant Professor of Finance, University of Illinois at Chicago

    Now that the votes are finally being cast and counted, it’s time to turn to that hallowed American tradition: rating how well pollsters and meta-pollsters did. I cannot claim to have an opinion on how most of these performed. However, I did take a look into one of the best-known meta-pollsters: Nate Silver’s FiveThirtyEight.com. Unfortunately for 538, it seems we can call the race early: things did not go well.

    Silver’s model, throughout the campaign, showed a dramatically higher likelihood that Donald J. Trump would be our next president ― higher than any other of the major forecasting models at work. That might be OK (and I’ll get to why shortly), but his model also sometimes exhibited strange behavior ― like moving overall results the opposite way of new data fed into the model. Silver has defended his projection as “commonsense” and dismissed models that estimated probabilities above 90% that Hillary Clinton would win.

    That strange behavior is what initially led me to take a closer look at Silver’s methodology.
    [massively snipped]

    TL/DR summary: 538's constantly-updated presidential election meta-poll analysis is pretty opaque. The author posits the likely flaws in Nate Silver's statistical modeling methodology that best explain why 538 has consistently shown a higher probability of a Trump win than any of the other meta-polling sites out there, and has also exhibited some notably odd jumps that seem to be at odds with news cycles and other polls. Basically, it looks like Silver has an opaque, overly complex model that has too many moving parts and tends to squeeze to the middle.

    Full article:
    538’s presidential model is built in a sub-optimal way. It’s at once far too complex, while also making basic errors that have thrown its projections out of whack.


    I found it to be a refreshing (nearly) apolitical story, perfect for capping off the national nightmare that has been the U.S. presidential election season of 2016. Very weird to see such a thing on HuffPo.
    Last edited by -Jrabbit; November 8, 2016, 20:10.
    Apolyton's Grim Reaper 2008, 2010 & 2011
    RIP lest we forget... SG (2) and LaFayette -- Civ2 Succession Games Brothers-in-Arms

  • #2
    I also found it interesting.

    I liked 538 in the last two elections. His mistakes seemed more obvious this time (especially the one of the too many corrections).

    But it is thanks to 538 that I have started to follow sports statistics a little which I would be entirely uninterested in otherwise.

    JM
    Jon Miller-
    I AM.CANADIAN
    GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

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    • #3
      But Trump's performance so far is validating 538's higher projections for Trump.
      “It is no use trying to 'see through' first principles. If you see through everything, then everything is transparent. But a wholly transparent world is an invisible world. To 'see through' all things is the same as not to see.”

      ― C.S. Lewis, The Abolition of Man

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      • #4
        Well, it's validating 538 more than most of the other models. But still invalidating it ... just in the other direction ...

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        • #5
          Yeah, 538 was actually showing lower percentages for HRC than other data wonk/metapollster analysis outfits, consistently.

          The entire polling industry was a spectacular fail.
          Apolyton's Grim Reaper 2008, 2010 & 2011
          RIP lest we forget... SG (2) and LaFayette -- Civ2 Succession Games Brothers-in-Arms

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          • #6
            Originally posted by -Jrabbit View Post
            Yeah, 538 was actually showing lower percentages for HRC than other data wonk/metapollster analysis outfits, consistently.

            The entire polling industry was a spectacular fail.
            True enough... but this won't stop them from continuing to make money in the future.
            Keep on Civin'
            RIP rah, Tony Bogey & Baron O

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            • #7
              Yeah I'm not sure how 538 being closer than any of the others is some kind of indictment of his model. Unless the accusation is 'You suck! (just less than everyone else)'.

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              • #8
                538 had trump at a reasonable chance. Other places were insane (e.g. the Princeton model at 1% likelihood of trump).
                12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                Stadtluft Macht Frei
                Killing it is the new killing it
                Ultima Ratio Regum

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                • #9
                  Nate Silver did a great job hedging his bets so he could look smart no matter who won

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                  • #10
                    I'd say it more like "his model incorporated an appropriate amount of uncertainty given the situation"

                    In previons elections he's gotten far more certain (single digit percent likelihood for Republicans in 2008 and 2012 as I recall)
                    12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                    Stadtluft Macht Frei
                    Killing it is the new killing it
                    Ultima Ratio Regum

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                    • #11
                      Yeah, Nate came out smelling like a rose. At least in comparison to others.

                      Seems he knew something screwy was going on, didn't know how to find and incorporate the missing factors, and reflected the uncertainty in his model.
                      Apolyton's Grim Reaper 2008, 2010 & 2011
                      RIP lest we forget... SG (2) and LaFayette -- Civ2 Succession Games Brothers-in-Arms

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                      • #12
                        Or the model simply did that for him. The statements he's made are that his model seems to have outperformed others in:

                        Taking larger than normal numbers of undecided voters into account in increasing overall uncertainty
                        Accounting for correlated errors in state level polls among demographically and geographically similar states

                        By the way, I don't know if the op was referring to this, but I also noticed that positive hillary news would sometimes lead to a very small move against hillary and vice versa. It occurred at the level of Monte Carlo type error (nate has claimed to run 10k simulations, and if he was not reusing the same random draws thenot you would expect random fluctuations in output probabilities on the order of a percent or so (which is what I saw)
                        12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                        Stadtluft Macht Frei
                        Killing it is the new killing it
                        Ultima Ratio Regum

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                        • #13
                          del
                          Last edited by TCO; December 16, 2016, 22:43.

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                          • #14
                            necro.
                            Order of the Fly
                            Those that cannot curse, cannot heal.

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