Clean Diesels! Get your clean Diesels here!

[pchang]

Or maybe not.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/compa...=ansmsnmoney11
Defeat software to only enforce clean emissions while under test. Installed on 11 million vehicles world wide.

[rah]

While not obvious from the title, we did this yesterday

http://apolyton.net/showthread.php/212284-Rolling-Coal-New-idiotic-trend-among-some-redneck-US-conservatives

[pchang]

Not really. That quickly devolved into an incoherent Kid stream of consciousness.

[rah]

In all fairness most threads that he participates in end up that way.

[pchang]

Well, Winterkorn has resigned (while denying any knowledge of illegality on his part).

[korn469]

Well, Volkswagon's CEO Winterkorn is out and their stock is down 35%. I don't think the EPA will give them a 19 billion dollar fine, I think 1-3 billion is more likely. However, I think both consumers and dealers will sue VW and that could easily be billions more. Also France and Germany are looking into it as well.

[rah]

I anticipate EXTREME piling on here.
Now long will it take to recover or even resolve. Could it be fatal?

[-Jrabbit]

Yeah, it's a tad more serious than goosing your mileage or horsepower specs.

[korn469]

I think it has the possibility of being fatal, but not in sense that VW shuts downs and liquidates everything. If its stock falls too low, I think another company will buy it out. Most likely BWM, but I wouldn't count out Toyota, GM, Nissan, or Ford either, with Hyundai, Fiat and Peugeot being possible but unlikely. However since the front runners are not European companies, I think this would give BMW a great advantage.

EDIT: Also add in Diamler, which would also be another front runner

[korn469]

Also, what if some of the pollution cities like Paris experienced was exacerbated by VW's defeat software.

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/12/01/france-moves-to-ban-diesel/

[Dinner]

Those sneaky Germans.

[pchang]

I anticipate EXTREME piling on here.
Now long will it take to recover or even resolve. Could it be fatal?

They sold 11 million cars world wide. If each affected country wants to take a look, I would not consider that piling on.

[rah]

Governments that awarded green tax credits to buyers.
Emission fines.
Fraud lawsuits by owners.
Fraud lawsuits by dealers.
Countries trying to get their piece of the pie.

It could be a contest to see who can pick the most meat off the bones.

[Sir Og]

Is this enough of a reason to make a sweeping conclusion that Germans are liars? Similar to the Greeks for example.

[pchang]

Is this enough of a reason to make a sweeping conclusion that Germans are liars? Similar to the Greeks for example.

For now, it is enough to make the sweeping generalization that US cars are better than German cars.
Now, if the Merkel government promises to get to the bottom of this and fix things, and in 3 years VW is still in existence and still installing this defeat software in their cars, then yes, we could make the sweeping conclusion that Germans are liars.