Can we rename this site ApolyMOBIUS?

[rah]

Hmm Declaration of Independence.
Committee of five.
The committee included Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, Roger Sherman, Robert Livingston and Thomas Jefferson.
BF an Englishman
JA an Englishman
RS an Englishman

I don't think I need to waste any more time on this.

[I AM MOBIUS]

Thomas Jefferson is the principle author, with the guidance of Richard Price.

The other guys obviously have made valuable contributions, but it was mostly the work of Jefferson; the guidance of Price and the purview of Adams

John Adams is actually of Welsh origin. The clue is in the surname.

You must try harder.

[C0ckney]

i'm sure aeson would be willing to listen to offers.

[rah]

Honourable mention can be made to significant contributors too.

The other guys obviously have made valuable contributions,

By your own requirements, I think I'm done.

thx for playing.

[I AM MOBIUS]

I wanted to see if you'd chicken out at the slightest excuse, and you did...

I thought better of you, rah, but really you are a flat-eather after all.

Awwwwww-puck puck puck...

[I AM MOBIUS]

PS, clearly you didn't read the Richard Price link for fear of it upsetting your close-minded, blinkered, head-in-the-sand attitude to new ideas, so here it is in full:

Dr Richard Price: The Welshman who influenced US founders

Dr Richard Price was born 290 years ago in the farmhouse of Tyn Ton in the village of Llangeinor, just to the north of Bridgend.


Yet this Renaissance scholar of politics, philosophy, mathematics and economics is better remembered on the other side of the Atlantic.


Now the Richard Price Society are hoping to reawaken a pride in the achievements of one of the Garw Valley's most influential - if not famous - sons.


They have launched an exhibition of some of his most seminary works and pictures and according to Swansea University's Professor of History Chris Williams it is a tribute which is well deserved.

"If Richard Price had been born a hundred years later, then quite possibly we'd be hailing him as the father of the modern world" Prof Chris Williams, Swansea University

"Though unfortunately he was ahead of his time. His ideas - such as one-person-one-vote and that the government only exists to serve the people - may seem obvious today, but in the 1750s and 1760s, he was the first person to seriously suggest them."


His upbringing was already radical, as he was born the son of a Unitarian preacher who flew in the face of established theological doctrine by believing that God was one entity, rather than the Holy Trinity.


Though for the first half of his life Price was comparatively low-profile and anonymous; working as a minister in the still-technically illegal Unitarian church of Newington Green.


However by the late 1760s his dissertations on economics had won him friends in high society, including Lord Shelburne and William Pitt The Younger.


According to Martyn Hooper, chairman of the Richard Price Society, his theories still provide the backbone to a great deal of today's financial orthodoxy.

Price influenced the founding fathers of the US, including Benjamin Franklin (left)


"Does the need to reduce the national debt sound familiar? Well it was Richard Price who first warned of the dangers of over-indebting the economy in his 1772 pamphlet, 'Appeal to the Public on the Subject of the National Debt'," he said.


"He also developed a theory of statistical calculation which revealed a serious flaw in the way in which pensions and insurance of the time was calculated and prevented a major financial disaster."


Yet Prof Williams says that no sooner had Price's economic genius taken him to the very heart of London society than his hard line liberal views set him at odds with the establishment once again.


"Price was faithful to his beliefs in egalitarianism, regardless of if that put him at odds with his country," he said.

His belief in the right of people to govern themselves influenced America's founding fathers such as Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin, Prof Chris Williams, Swansea University

"His belief in the right of people to govern themselves influenced America's founding fathers such as Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin.


"His work directly contributed to George Washington's assertion that George III's reign over the 13 colonies of America was 'tyrannical, and thus illegitimate'.


"In fact upon the Declaration of Independence Price was made an honorary US citizen and invited to take charge of the new nation's economic policy."


Price died in 1791 in the midst of a controversy surrounding his support for another popular revolution - this time in France.


While he was honoured by both the American Founding Fathers and Napoleon, in Britain he was largely written off as a dissident trouble-maker.


His exhibition in Llangeinor Community Centre officially opened on Saturday - on the 222nd anniversary of his death - by Mayor of Bridgend, Councillor Marlene Thomas.

Sadly, I doubt you'll read it anyway, but there is always hope...

[rah]

You are truly delusional today.
I point out a few Englishman contributed which you said you've give credit for contributions and then claim I chickened out.
If you want to change the rules every time someone posts, fine. But why should I waste my time then?

Read back my original statement. Note the bolded ONLY

I have never claimed that they didn't have some influence.

Jeeze.

[giblets]

Thomas Jefferson was born in Virginia, his father Peter Jefferson was born in Virginia. His mother, Jane Randolph, was born in London. Thomas Jefferson is about as "Welsh" as someone in America with partially Irish ancestry claiming to be Irish.

[giblets]

John Adams, born in Massachusetts. Both of his parents were born in Massachusetts. Yeah, he's really "Welsh"

edit:

Adams is a common surname of English and Scottish origin, meaning "son of Adam".[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adams_%28surname%29

Oh yeah, the clue is in the surname

[I AM MOBIUS]

I did give credit, despite one of the 'Englishmen' you claimed actually being Welsh.

By giving credit, I wasn't saying ONLY Welshmen, but I certainly stand by the following:

Welshmen were the principle authors of arguably the three most important documents of the US government, so that's far and away more than 'some' influence...

[I AM MOBIUS]

Thomas Jefferson was born in Virginia, his father Peter Jefferson was born in Virginia. His mother, Jane Randolph, was born in London. Thomas Jefferson is about as "Welsh" as someone in America with partially Irish ancestry claiming to be Irish.

You ****ing simpleton...

We're talking ancestry, not least the fact that he was fluent in Welsh, and believe me when I say that you don't learn Welsh if you don't have to!

[giblets]

You ****ing simpleton...

We're talking ancestry, not least the fact that he was fluent in Welsh, and believe me when I say that you don't learn Welsh if you don't have to!

Jefferson said in an April 12, 1817 letter to Joseph Delaplaine, "I was educated at William and Mary college in Williamsburg. I read Greek, Latin, French, Italian, Spanish, and English of course, with something of it's radix the Anglo-Saxon." In addition to the languages he lists, there is some evidence that Jefferson was attempting German.[3]

Jefferson had dictionaries, vocabularies, and grammars in a number of other languages in his library. These included Arabic, Gaelic, and Welsh, amongst others. However, without confirmation from Jefferson himself, the most we can assume is that he was "dabbling" in these languages, and never achieved a notable degree of fluency.

https://www.monticello.org/site/research-and-collections/languages-jefferson-spoke-or-read

Quit making sh!t up

[I AM MOBIUS]

John Adams, born in Massachusetts. Both of his parents were born in Massachusetts. Yeah, he's really "Welsh"

edit:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adams_%28surname%29

Oh yeah, the clue is in the surname

My gran's surname was Adams, and my mother's.

Wikipedia, rewriting history since 2001.

John Adams, the second ever President and the first one to reside in the White House, was able to trace his ancestry to the town of Pembroke in Pembrokeshire and to Penybanc Farm at Llanboidy in Carmarthenshire. The earliest reference to his family comes in 1422 when a distant ancestor, John Adams of Pembroke, married the daughter of Penybanc Farm and duly took over the business. David Adams, one of the later sons of Penybanc, was educated at Queen Elizabeth Grammar School in Carmarthen, took holy orders and in 1675 emigrated to America. Fifty years later his great grandson, the future President, was born.

[giblets]

Thomas Jefferson actually wrote the first draft of the Declaration of Independence in Welsh, based on the ideas of some Welsh guy with no reference to John Locke or any other English philosophers, and then they translated it into English of course /SARCASM

[giblets]

My gran's surname was Adams, and my mother's.

Wikipedia, rewriting history since 2001.

Yep, and ancestry is 100% patrilineal, women don't matter, thank you for showing your sexism!