Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

is it snowing in hell today? Scalia and Thomas disagreed on something!

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • is it snowing in hell today? Scalia and Thomas disagreed on something!

    The Supreme Court ruled 6-3 on Tuesday that the Constitution forbids police from holding a suspect without probable cause, even for fewer than 10 extra minutes.

    Writing on behalf of the court, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg declared that the constitutional protections against unreasonable search and seizure prevent police from extending an otherwise completed traffic stop to allow for a drug-sniffing dog to arrive.

    “We hold that a police stop exceeding the time needed to handle the matter for which the stop was made violates the Constitution’s shield against unreasonable seizures,” she ruled.

    The case, Rodriguez v. United States, was brought by a man who was pulled over for driving on the shoulder of a Nebraska highway. After the police pulled him over, checked his license and issued a warning for his erratic driving, the officer asked whether he could walk his drug-sniffing dog around the vehicle.

    The driver, Dennys Rodriguez, refused. However, the officer nonetheless detained him for “seven or eight minutes” until a backup officer arrived with a dog of his own.

    After sniffing around the car, the dog detected drugs, and Rodriguez was indicted for possessing methamphetamine. In all, the stop lasted less than 30 minutes.

    According to the Supreme Court, though, that search of Rodriguez’s car was illegal, and the evidence gathered in it should not be used at trial. While officers may use a dog to sniff around a car during the course of a routine traffic stop, they cannot extend the length of the stop in order to carry it out.

    “[T]he tolerable duration of police inquiries in the traffic-stop context is determined by the seizure’s ‘mission’ — to address the traffic violation that warranted the stop,” Ginsburg ruled. “Authority for the seizure thus ends when tasks tied to the traffic infraction are — or reasonably should have been — completed.”

    Justices Clarence Thomas, Samuel Alito and Anthony Kennedy disagreed with the ruling, arguing that police can reasonably detain people to investigate other possible violations of the law.

    In his dissenting opinion, Thomas said that majority’s ruling makes “meaningless" the legal difference between “reasonable suspicion” — which does not authorize a search of someone’s property — and “probable cause," which does.

    “Had Officer Struble arrested, handcuffed, and taken Rodriguez to the police station for his traffic violation, he would have complied with the Fourth Amendment,” he wrote, using the majority’s argument.

    “But because he made Rodriguez wait for seven or eight extra minutes until a dog arrived, he evidently committed a constitutional violation. Such a view of the Fourth Amendment makes little sense.”


    on the decision

    time to put a stop to all those bull**** fishing expeditions... I have no doubt that dogs can smell drugs. I also have no doubt that a dog's handler can fake a positive "hit" whenever he wants... making the use of dogs just another abuse of power on the part of the police.
    To us, it is the BEAST.

  • #2
    They've disagreed on a number of things. Most decisions aren't "political" and don't split left/right.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by regexcellent View Post
      They've disagreed on a number of things.
      QFT. On many different issues. As they tend to take a very different view of legal jurisprudence (Scalia focusing on textualism, specifically originalism, and Thomas focusing on natural law). But these type of headlines tend to happen every time they disagree...

      Roberts being in the majority is more interesting (and welcome - I didn't know much about his position on 4th Amendment concerns prior to this)
      “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
      - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

      Comment


      • #4
        Justices Clarence Thomas, Samuel Alito and Anthony Kennedy disagreed with the ruling, arguing that police can reasonably detain people to investigate other possible violations of the law.
        Why and how long is reasonable?

        In his dissenting opinion, Thomas said that majority’s ruling makes “meaningless" the legal difference between “reasonable suspicion” — which does not authorize a search of someone’s property — and “probable cause," which does.
        I dont get it, if I stop someone for a traffic violation and I detain them even longer to bring in a drug dog based not on probable cause but reasonable suspicion haven't I made the difference between the two meaningless?

        “Had Officer Struble arrested, handcuffed, and taken Rodriguez to the police station for his traffic violation, he would have complied with the Fourth Amendment,” he wrote, using the majority’s argument.
        Did the traffic violation create probable cause to arrest the driver? I dont think that was the majority's logic.

        Comment


        • #5
          The big problem with dogs is the handler can make the dog bark on command and thus claim the dog smelled drugs even when it didn't. It is an easy way for cops to get an excuse for an unlawful search.
          Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

          Comment


          • #6
            Kind of bull****. Cops are suppose to get drugs, like meth, off the street. But they can't detain someone long enough for a dog to arrive? Makes no sense to me. I can see if they detained him in jail, but not on the highway. If they detained him on the highway it's because they knew he had meth.

            Also, meth addicts are idiots. If I were one I would not drive on the shoulder.
            I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
            - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

            Comment


            • #7
              I'm looking at the decision alignment statistics...


              From 1994 to 2004 Scalia and Thomas had the highest agree rate on the Court at 86.7%. In that decade, they disagreed 109 times. So yeah... they disagree... ten times a year. In 1996, they disagreed on 2.3% of cases.



              I wish I could get a rate that high with a girlfriend. Sheesh.

              2.3%... well reg, I will agree with you that this is indeed "a number of times" that they have disagreed.

              Idiot.
              To us, it is the BEAST.

              Comment


              • #8
                Sava has issues with women.
                I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

                Comment


                • #9
                  Definitely. They like me. I like them. We get along and have lots of sex. It's a pretty serious issue.
                  To us, it is the BEAST.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The NYTimes looked at the 2010-14 SCOTUS term



                    It found Scalia and Thomas agreed 91% of the time. Seems like a lot, but then you look further, Roberts and Alito agreed at 93%, but the winners (as it were) are Kagan and Sotomayor agreed at 94% (Kagan and Ginsberg agreed 93% of the time, FWIW)
                    “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                    - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Sava View Post
                      Definitely. They like me. I like them. We get along and have lots of sex. It's a pretty serious issue.
                      Sexual issues?
                      I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                      - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui View Post
                        The NYTimes looked at the 2010-14 SCOTUS term



                        It found Scalia and Thomas agreed 91% of the time. Seems like a lot, but then you look further, Roberts and Alito agreed at 93%, but the winners (as it were) are Kagan and Sotomayor agreed at 94% (Kagan and Ginsberg agreed 93% of the time, FWIW)

                        Good argument. Thomas and Scalia disagree a lot because a few justices from 2010-2014 agreed with each other more.






                        This is my favorite sentence of your post:

                        Seems like a lot, but then you look further,
                        .... and find that 91% is actually... well... a lot

                        To us, it is the BEAST.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Kidicious View Post
                          Sexual issues?
                          My top sexual issue right now is that by the third or fourth time in the day, my dick just kind of dry heaves...

                          maybe I need to drink more water
                          To us, it is the BEAST.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Sava View Post
                            Good argument. Thomas and Scalia disagree a lot because a few justices from 2010-2014 agreed with each other more.






                            This is my favorite sentence of your post:



                            .... and find that 91% is actually... well... a lot



                            Or, you know... you could just admit that in the context of SCOTUS justices agreeing, Scalia and Thomas aren't #1 and therefore don't deserve the "OMG, they disagreed".

                            But that'd require you to admit you were wrong.
                            “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                            - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I'm still getting a kick out of that last post...

                              You understand that your figure... your "they don't agree so much figure" was actually higher than one I posted?

                              Originally posted by Sava View Post


                              From 1994 to 2004 Scalia and Thomas had the highest agree rate on the Court at 86.7%.
                              Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui View Post
                              The NYTimes looked at the 2010-14 SCOTUS term


                              It found Scalia and Thomas agreed 91% of the time.

                              Own goal.

                              I don't even have to post anymore. You are making my argument for me.
                              To us, it is the BEAST.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X