Calirofrnia has about 1 years worth of water left

[Hauldren Collider]

Sure, what possible downside could there be to water and food becoming more expensive?

Water might go from being nearly free to almost nearly free? Christ, dude. The consequence of NOT making it more expensive is that there is less overall water. Your continual rejection of basic market economics is depressing to witness.

You can extend your consequences here to literally any other thing money can buy, and before you know it you're a full blown communist. The laws of economics apply to water and food the same as they do to everything else. The French thought as you did during the French Revolution. Remind me what happened when they decided to control the price of bread? Better yet, look at ****ing Venezuela. There are shortages of ****ing toilet paper due to price controls enacted out of fear of the price rising beyond reach of the poor.

Ugh.

[Hauldren Collider]

Here's an obvious point that's been proven again and again that you idiots can't seem to fathom: Letting the price rise in times of shortage is the best, and ONLY, way of ensuring the poor have as much access as possible to a particular good. It increases supply.

[kentonio]

Water might go from being nearly free to almost nearly free? Christ, dude. The consequence of NOT making it more expensive is that there is less overall water. Your continual rejection of basic market economics is depressing to witness.

Your continual ignorance over the simple fact that market forces can be an incredible destructive force when applied to basic necessities is the depressing thing. You might want to go and do some reading about food commodity trading and the devastating effects it can have.

You can start with wheat.

The global speculative frenzy sparked riots in more than thirty countries and drove the number of the world’s “food insecure” to more than a billion. In 2008, for the first time since such statistics have been kept, the proportion of the world’s population without enough to eat ratcheted upward. The ranks of the hungry had increased by 250 million in a single year, the most abysmal increase in all of human history.

http://theglobalrealm.com/2011/02/04...-away-with-it/

You can extend your consequences here to literally any other thing money can buy, and before you know it you're a full blown communist. The laws of economics apply to water and food the same as they do to everything else. The French thought as you did during the French Revolution. Remind me what happened when they decided to control the price of bread? Better yet, look at ****ing Venezuela. There are shortages of ****ing toilet paper due to price controls enacted out of fear of the price rising beyond reach of the poor.

Ugh.

Look, I know it might be difficult for you to understand given that you're a hugely privileged rich kid, but for a vast number of people worldwide, even tiny increases in the price of food, water and other necessities can result in consequences as simple as not being able to have food and water. Those examples you love to pull out about Communist Russia, or Revolutionary France or Venuzuala came about because of incredibly poor people being pushed to breaking point, and fighting back to try and gain the basic necessities. Yes the results of that are often horrific as power hungry individuals seize control, but those situations don't come about in the first place if you structure your society in ways that prevent the poorest from starving. Otherwise they rise up, put you and your family against a wall and shoot you.

It also says a huge amount about you as a person, if you can't feel empathy for vast numbers of people who are suffering or will suffer as a result of letting a market driven purely on profit decide how people will live. Corporations do not give a **** about the social impact of their planning (aside from how it'll effect them PR wise), and are prone to making idiotic and ill advised decisions to which you have absolutely no redress apart from not buying their products. You think when hundreds of millions of people worldwide go hungry it's a fair compensation that a corporations stock falls temporarily or a financial firms profits drop by a few tens of millions? Is that the world you think we should live in?

[kentonio]

Here's an obvious point that's been proven again and again that you idiots can't seem to fathom: Letting the price rise in times of shortage is the best, and ONLY, way of ensuring the poor have as much access as possible to a particular good. It increases supply.

This is an incredibly sad, short sighted and immoral world view. Spend more time around poor people and then come back and tell us if you're still so keen to watch them go hungry. After you've discovered what hunger actually is.

[Hauldren Collider]

Why don't you? Take a flight to Venezuela and tell me how these price controls go for you.

I believe these things because they are a) obviously and empirically true and b) I actually care about the poor and would like them to have good outcomes. Have a nice day, comrade.

[N35t0r]

Here's an obvious point that's been proven again and again that you idiots can't seem to fathom: Letting the price rise in times of shortage is the best, and ONLY, way of ensuring the poor have as much access as possible to a particular good. It increases supply.

Ah. this is why, during WW2, the prices of first necessity goods was left to 'the market' to manage.

[kentonio]

Why don't you? Take a flight to Venezuela and tell me how these price controls go for you.

Do we have anyone here who actually knows about Venezuela and can comment on the conditions of the poor before Chavez and now?

I believe these things because they are a) obviously and empirically true and b) I actually care about the poor and would like them to have good outcomes. Have a nice day, comrade.

No, basically you're commiting the cardinal sin of students everywhere and placing undue belief in often overly simplistic theories while failing to consider the genuine consequences of their flaws. You're basically waving your hand at the thought of millions going hungry without a true appreciation of what hunger is, and morally justifying it to yourself with the thought that it'll result in a greater good further down the line.

It's ok, you'll grow out of it. Or become a Republican.

[Dinner]

Almond price in this part of the world is 2x comparing to what it was two years ago as is, most of the almonds even here are from California.

Part of that is the drought and part of it is the California Almond Growers Association, which producers about 80% of the world's almonds, has really expanded its advertising in places in China and India and as a result demand is surging. Production is down but only a bit due to use of groundwater supplies to suppliment irrigation allotments. The ground water won't last forever though.

[C0ckney]

about the french revolution: the cause of the bread shortages was a series of bad harvests and the deregulation of the grain market that, given the lack of food available, drove prices up and caused the spectre of famine to appear over france. the beginnings of industrialisation and urbanisation meant that peasants were flooding into the cities where there was little food. following the revolution, feudalism was abolished, along with tithes - in other words a complete realignment of the rural economy (though of course in many places feudalism had been effectively abolished by popular actions before) - against the backdrop of continuing bad weather. when all of this, as well as the civil conflicts and foreign wars, are taken into consideration, it's hardly surprising that food was scarce.

the measures to control bread prices were actually quite successful at first and their removal caused great hardship and political upheaval; but they weren't a solution, nor could they have been.

looking at the broader context there were many times when food was scarce that people would take matters into their own hands. those taking part would seize grain and other foodstuffs from merchants and force them to sell it at a 'just price'. these actions were almost always popular and local; it was something of a throwback to the medieval idea of 'just price' and it's not surprising that such ideas persisted where several elements of the medieval economy also did.

having said all that, there's absolutely no reason to aid farmers, who already receive very considerable government support, in essentially destroying the planet. agriculture is going to have to change.

[Dinner]

California is split into many water regions. Marin County's reservoirs are full. The Central Valley reservoirs are almost empty. Santa Barbara is taking their desalinization plant out of mothballs. I think Los Angeles and San Diego will be drinking large amounts of desalinated water within 5 years.

San Diego's deal plant is supposed to be online next year but the one in Santa Barbara was partially dismantled and left vacant in the mid 1980's and both vandals and metal thieves have hit it hard. SB really needs the water badly as they are not connected to the state aqua duct system and gets all of its water from one reservoir but there is a question of if such a small municipal water district can afford it.

Currently, I don't know of a single deal project proposed any where in the state besides the one being built in San Diego.

[Proteus_MST]

...

looking at the broader context there were many times when food was scarce that people would take matters into their own hands. those taking part would seize grain and other foodstuffs from merchants and force them to sell it at a 'just price'. these actions were almost always popular and local; it was something of a throwback to the medieval idea of 'just price' and it's not surprising that such ideas persisted where several elements of the medieval economy also did.

...

That´s what the second amendment is for, isn´t it?
So that, if bread prices are too high, american citizens have the weapons at their hands in order to supply themselves with bread (and/or grain and/or money to buy bread) via "other means"

[The Mad Monk]

Um, no. Rights extend only as far as they do not violate the rights of others. Armed robbery would be one such violation.

[C0ckney]

That´s what the second amendment is for, isn´t it?
So that, if bread prices are too high, american citizens have the weapons at their hands in order to supply themselves with bread (and/or grain and/or money to buy bread) via "other means"

i'm not sure whether this happened in the US, though it wouldn't be at all surprising if it did, but it happened quite a lot in england, france and other places in europe right up until the 19th century.

[regexcellent]

At some point there is only so much water and there either need to be fewer farmers or fewer residents. I think farmers are going to lose that fight.

[Donegeal]

Here's an obvious point that's been proven again and again that you idiots can't seem to fathom: Letting the price rise in times of shortage is the best, and ONLY, way of ensuring the poor have as much access as possible to a particular good. It increases supply.

You are the worst person I have ever met. On-line or other-wise.