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The latest UK financial train-wreck begins

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  • The latest UK financial train-wreck begins

    (Reuters) - British Chancellor George Osborne will allow pensioners to cash in annuities in exchange for lump sums in his annual budget next week, British newspapers reported, in a move designed to woo voters before a May national election.

    The measures are an extension of pension reforms announced last year, which eased requirements on people to buy annuities as part of their pension.

    The election on May 7 is shaping up to be the most unpredictable in decades, with anti-establishment parties gaining support at the expense of Prime Minister David Cameron's Conservative Party and the opposition Labour party.

    While Osborne's focus on reducing Britain's large budget deficit means he is unlikely to offer any major giveaways in Wednesday's budget, allowing pensioners to cash in their annuities will likely appeal to older voters who are more likely to vote Conservative.

    The measure will be introduced in 2016, according to newspapers due to be published on Sunday.



    Why is this going to be a disaster?

    1- Without fail, every deregulation in UK financial services for the consumer market results in a mis-selling plague that surfaces about a decade down the line, because the de-regulation is rushed in by politicians before the supporting risk management framework is in place. See personal pensions, low-cost endowments etc etc.

    2- The financial services companies are already stretched hard by the removal of the need to buy annuities from this year. They are having to recruit loads of temps to cover it. Temps are useless and make loads of mistakes. Next year it will be even worse.

    3- This move only makes financial sense for people whose life expectancy has significantly reduced since retirement. And that's not the norm, because we're living longer. Cue lots of people claiming benefits years down the line.

    4- It's a political decision, not a financial one. It's trying to buy the grey vote for the election. Politics really should be kept out of this.

    5- Every single Risk Manager in the sector thinks this is a terrible idea, but some Financial managers approve. If you care more about people than profits, that's a bad sign.

    Bookmark this thread, and come back in 2025 to go "Yep- Bugs was right".
    The genesis of the "evil Finn" concept- Evil, evil Finland

  • #2
    I have always heard that annuities were a sucker's bet.
    Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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    • #3
      You heard wrong. Annuities are fantastic and if you can get one in a tax advantaged way you absolutely should do so. They have all of the advantages of a defined benefit plan with none of the downsides (insurance companies very rarely go under).

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      • #4
        A rather blanket statement without even considering personal circumstances, or the return the annuity can give you. You would be great at misselling.
        One day Canada will rule the world, and then we'll all be sorry.

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        • #5
          Reg and Oerdin are both wrong, but annuities get a bad rap because people get mad when their relatives die before they get the full value of the principal. Which is of course a stupid thing to be mad about. That said, a lot more people should be getting annuities than currently do. IMO anyway.
          If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
          ){ :|:& };:

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          • #6
            Deregulation is a scam. Voters should reject it at every opportunity.
            To us, it is the BEAST.

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            • #7
              Are the annuities we're talking about here pension funds, or private funds? If they're corporate or public pensions then I'd say that recipients shouldn't be able to cash them in because they're really sort of like group insurance. If they're private funds arranged by the individual I don't see why the recipient shouldn't be able to cash them in. Does the UK have the equivalent of Individual Retirement Accounts?
              "I say shoot'em all and let God sort it out in the end!

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              • #8
                Annuities have their place in a diversified portfolio.
                It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
                RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Dr Strangelove View Post
                  Does the UK have the equivalent of Individual Retirement Accounts?
                  Yes. But there are so many scheme types I couldn't tell you which one matches it. Probably the Stakeholder pension (wholly the individual I think) or the Group Personal Pension (wholly individual and effectively the same as a Stakeholder plan I think, but with the buying power of the company you work for negotiating a "better" deal. Although, I think I now have four disparate pension pots created due my employers switching providers).
                  One day Canada will rule the world, and then we'll all be sorry.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Dr Strangelove View Post
                    Are the annuities we're talking about here pension funds, or private funds? If they're corporate or public pensions then I'd say that recipients shouldn't be able to cash them in because they're really sort of like group insurance. If they're private funds arranged by the individual I don't see why the recipient shouldn't be able to cash them in. Does the UK have the equivalent of Individual Retirement Accounts?
                    All good questions. Any UKer have answers as to how this all works currently and what part of what is currently going on will be effected?
                    “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                    - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Dr Strangelove View Post
                      Are the annuities we're talking about here pension funds, or private funds?
                      They can be purchased with funds deriving from either.

                      If they're corporate or public pensions then I'd say that recipients shouldn't be able to cash them in because they're really sort of like group insurance. If they're private funds arranged by the individual I don't see why the recipient shouldn't be able to cash them in.
                      A few drawbacks-

                      1- They have received significant tax relief due to the fact that they were intended to be used to purchase annuities. If I'm understanding these proposals (they're vague as hell) individuals will be taxed at their marginal rate. In other words if your annual income plus the annuity cash-in is over £42,000-odd, you get stung for 40-45% tax.

                      2- The state will end up picking up the wreckage when it goes wrong, because old people vote. And it'll be the most vulnerable ones who will come under the most pressure to cash in and make the worst decisions.

                      3- Pensioners on annuities escalating with inflation have come through the last 15 years of market crashes unscathed. Anyone drawing down income from their fund wouldn't be anywhere near as well off.
                      The genesis of the "evil Finn" concept- Evil, evil Finland

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                      • #12
                        Schemes like this only benefit the financially disciplined who have enough resources to ride out market swings. Those characteristics also make them the most unlikely to use such schemes. The financially strapped who make poor decisions, though......
                        “It is no use trying to 'see through' first principles. If you see through everything, then everything is transparent. But a wholly transparent world is an invisible world. To 'see through' all things is the same as not to see.”

                        ― C.S. Lewis, The Abolition of Man

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