Anticipate lower Elok availability

[Elok]

I graduated magna. Something like 3.81, can't recall exactly. I was told enlisting with a degree would start me off as a specialist, at least in army, which is better pay. My brother enlisted with no degree when he was slightly younger than I am now, and he's now making six figures. Of course, I have no desire to do what he does (not sure what exactly that is, but it apparently involves breaking networks on the other side of the world, or now teaching other people to do so). And my brother-in-law signed up to be a mechanic, and apparently they never actually taught him to do jack **** in the way of fixing vehicles; he just hangs around doing something useless and demonstrating firearms proficiency. Can't leave because he has no job skills and his sick kids need the health insurance. My kids are generally healthy, thank god, so that wouldn't apply. Between the two drastically contrasting examples, I have no idea what to think.

I always thought Alby didn't enlist because he thought he was too good to be a regular grunt like the guys he wanted to command.

[Elok]

I'm with those who believe you shouldn't join the military unless you're prepared to fight and die for your country. I am in no way prepared to do so, which is one reason I'll never join.

Yeah, I'm not even the slightest bit patriotic, which you'd think would be a deal-breaker there. I sort of hinted as much to my brother in our conversation, but I couldn't come right out and say, "I have no respect for the military or government except in the coldly utilitarian sense that they function adequately to keep my family safe and the roads clear. Also, I will never be able to sleep well if I think anything I did might have gotten a stranger, 'bad' or not, killed. That is pretty much the entire point of the military."

However, while both brother and BIL are more conservative politically than me, both are also calculating men who would no more sacrifice themselves for their country than they would take a bullet for Ronald McDonald. So I guess that's not a prerequisite? I don't know what to think.

[regexcellent]

If you have a 3.81 you can DEFINITELY get an officer slot. ROTC was waving a scholarship under my nose with a 3.1 GPA. Don't ****ing enlist. A specialist (E-4) earns **** and is just a slightly (slightly) higher paid private. Lieutenants get paid like 3 times as much. ~$45k/year before allowances like BAH, and the BAH is substantial.

****, with a 3.81 you are potentially competitive for a rated position (flying officer) in the Air Force.

If you're absolutely dead-set on enlisting in the Army you could try 56M, Chaplain Assistant I suppose, you're probably not going to be shooting anyone with that job. But again, just go to a recruiter and ask for OCS.

[Elok]

You did catch the part where I'm not looking to go career, right? I'm considering it as a way to get free training/have them pay for a better degree than what I have, and then move on to a happy civilian life after four years. Can officers do that? Also, I understand officers have to be responsible.

Regardless, my real concern here isn't about money per se. I feel pretty crappy about myself, as you might imagine, bouncing from crappy no-future job to crappy no-future job almost ten years out of college. But that's nothing, nothing, to how I would feel if two years from now a drone strike in Mosul or Mogadishu or somewhere kills an old lady and her grandson in a "whoops, collateral damage" moment, and I'm the guy who maintained the drone, or inventoried the missiles, or was some way involved. And I'm not certain that there are a lot of open spaces in the military for guys sufficiently isolated from the business of what the military does that I could pretend to myself that I wasn't culpable. Nor do I believe I have it in me to follow orders as smoothly and unquestioningly as the bosses likely expect. The more I think about it, the more it seems like a bad idea. But I don't know. Gotta do what's best for the family, etc.

[regexcellent]

You don't have to go in for a career. Officer contracts are 3-4 years. And hey, you may actually enjoy it, which I guarantee won't be the case if you enlist.

Holy **** I almost forgot. If you don't want to deploy, try the coast guard. Seriously.

[Hauldren Collider]

You don't have to go in for a career. Officer contracts are 3-4 years. And hey, you may actually enjoy it, which I guarantee won't be the case if you enlist.

Holy **** I almost forgot. If you don't want to deploy, try the coast guard. Seriously.

Er, coast guard deploys overseas sometimes...more than you'd think. plus they spend a lot of time on a boat. You don't see your kids much while you're on a boat

[Hauldren Collider]

Elok, however menial your job seems now, it will certainly be way more menial if you decide to enlist in the military.

[C0ckney]

Yeah, I'm not even the slightest bit patriotic, which you'd think would be a deal-breaker there. I sort of hinted as much to my brother in our conversation, but I couldn't come right out and say, "I have no respect for the military or government except in the coldly utilitarian sense that they function adequately to keep my family safe and the roads clear. Also, I will never be able to sleep well if I think anything I did might have gotten a stranger, 'bad' or not, killed. That is pretty much the entire point of the military."

However, while both brother and BIL are more conservative politically than me, both are also calculating men who would no more sacrifice themselves for their country than they would take a bullet for Ronald McDonald. So I guess that's not a prerequisite? I don't know what to think.

i'd be careful if i were you. working for, and thus depending on, a cause you don't believe in, or even respect, will cause you problems, however minor your role. i suspect this is doubly true of something as morally bankrupt and repugnant as the military. you'll either be a faker, going through the motions, always worried that people will notice, and no doubt they will, or worse still, a true believer.

i have a good friend who joined the US military as a way to fast track his citizenship and he's now so full of that patriotic guff, which manages to be both empty and horrifying at the same time, that talking to him about most subjects has become a chore.

[Hauldren Collider]

wow c0ckney is a giant *******. God forbid someone like America. It couldn't possibly be that his experience in the armed forces actually taught him something that made him respect america, no. It's all guff.

[C0ckney]

it's not the country that's important; all patriots are ridiculous. my friend always liked america, always wanted to go there. he married an american girl (who is awful, but that's by the by), and wanted to live what one might call the american dream. in short, he loved the place, but before he joined the military he never gave out those lines of worthless talk so beloved of all patriots; now he sounds like al b sure on steroids.

i suppose that when going into that kind of environment as a young man, a foreigner, there must be a lot of pressure to fit in, to become, so to speak, more irish than the irish. perhaps he adopts those views as a mechanism, a way of proving himself to his comrades; or perhaps of course he really believe in all the nonsense he spouts. either way, it's a real shame.

[Sava]

all patriots are ridiculous.

QFT

Funny how the people who claim to love a country the most are usually the ones who hate most people living in it.

[C0ckney]

but anyway this thread is about elok and it sounds as if, given his lack of belief in the whole sordid business and his fundamentally decent nature, joining the military would not be a good idea for him.

[Hauldren Collider]

What c0ckney is describing is probably not a consequence of joining the military. Probably half my friends here at CMU are immigrants from other countries. Most of them are like his friend, and always wanted to go to America, and now that they are here, they love it more than almost anyone who was born here. I think it's because they have an even greater appreciation of how much nicer it is here than basically anywhere else, since they've actually lived in places that suck.

[regexcellent]

I'm lol'ing at the military being morally repugnant thing. It won't ~~damage his soul~~ to stack pallets in a funny costume.

Do you really think the dude who hands out towels at the base gym ever thinks to himself, "man, I am part of an organization of evil and I am helping people murder babies and every towel I pass out is another droned wedding!" No of course he ****ing doesn't.

[Hauldren Collider]

BRB, gonna go ask the Kurds, Yazidis, Kuwaitis and South Koreans whether they think our military is morally repugnant
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they say no