UK General Election thread

[Hauldren Collider]

Britain should really use Israel's proportional system. It works quite well there. No party ever achieves a majority--so minority viewpoints have to be respected in order to develop a governing coalition.

[C0ckney]

there are a number of european systems that would serve the UK well. even scotland's system, while not fully proportional, would be a massive step forward.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Britain should really use Israel's proportional system. It works quite well there. No party ever achieves a majority--so minority viewpoints have to be respected in order to develop a governing coalition.

We had a referendum on changing electoral systems a few years ago, but with the biggest parties basically lying their tits off against, it never stood a chance.

In sane world the House of Lords would be scrapped and replaced by a 100% elected Senate using proportional representation. But this is not a sane world.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

The current system serves the incumbents well, that's all that matters.

[C0ckney]

that and the fact that what was offered was not proportional, so its supporters were only lukewarm, while its opponents were dead set against it.

[Hauldren Collider]

We had a referendum on changing electoral systems a few years ago, but with the biggest parties basically lying their tits off against, it never stood a chance.

In sane world the House of Lords would be scrapped and replaced by a 100% elected Senate using proportional representation. But this is not a sane world.

I feel like the fact that you have a queen speaks volumes about the desire of the British government to modernize its political system.

Someone's gonna come at me and counter by saying that the US system is also very flawed, so I'd like to pre-empt whoever that will be by saying I completely agree.

[History049]

conservatives: capitalist, free NHS, socially liberal (so support things like gay marriage), authoritarian (drug war, mass incarceration, mass surveillance etc.), broadly pro-immigration, generally pro-war, spilt between pro and anti-EU; the leadership is pro-EU.

labour: capitalist, free NHS, socially liberal (so support things like gay marriage), authoritarian (drug war, mass incarceration, mass surveillance etc.), pro-immigration, generally pro-war, broadly pro-EU.

liberal democrats: capitalist, free NHS, socially liberal (so support things like gay marriage), slightly less authoritarian (less enthusiastic about the drug war, mass incarceration, mass surveillance etc.), pro-immigration, generally anti-war, solidly pro-EU.

So Tories are centrist, labor is center left to solidly left (like US Democrats) and liberal democrats are more libertarian left?

What about UKIP? LIke the US Republicans?

[kentonio]

Pretty much. They're the people who used to be the really knobhead wing of the Tory party.

[kentonio]

actually there are some interesting things about these elections: the rise of two new national parties (ok neither are really new, but they may win a decent amount of seats this time); a seismic shift in scotland, and; the possibility that not only will neither of the big two parties win a majority, but also that a tory+lib dem or labour+lib dem coalition won't be enough on its own to govern.

It's a fair point actually, although I do wonder if the expected Lib Dem collapse will be quite as bad as people think when it comes to the election. Or at least that it'll favour the small parties over Labour. People do tend to be reluctant to vote outside the big names at the general.

Re Scotland, SNP seem to have this one in the bag, but I do wonder if Labour will reverse that next time. Can't see Scotland slipping into one party dominance.

[I AM MOBIUS]

We had a referendum on changing electoral systems a few years ago, but with the biggest parties basically lying their tits off against, it never stood a chance.

In sane world the House of Lords would be scrapped and replaced by a 100% elected Senate using proportional representation. But this is not a sane world.

So, what you're saying is that you agree with the Lib Dems?

I will still be voting Lib Dem this time. Whilst I think Clegg was an idiot, they got a lot of their policies through and prevented the Tories from causing even more damage than they have. Their (Clegg's) biggest mistake was going back on their promise about tuition fees and predictably getting betrayed by the Tories - thus turning the AV vote basically into an anti Clegg vote.

You would have to shoot me before I could ever contemplate voting Tory or Labour - you would have to torture me to death and I would still spit in you face at the mere mention of voting UKIP.

The Greens are still fantasists.

if I lived in Scotland, I would be seriously tempted to vote SNP tactically.

[C0ckney]

So Tories are centrist, labor is center left to solidly left (like US Democrats) and liberal democrats are more libertarian left?

What about UKIP? LIke the US Republicans?

well the point i was trying to get across is that there is very little real difference between the main parties. they agree on most things, and even with those they disagree on, the disagreement is about degree rather than principle or ideology. the centre of gravity of american politics is further to the right than that in british politics, and there are certain other key differences - there are no culture wars in the UK for example, there is a broad consensus about these issues - that make a comparison of the two quite difficult; certainly trying to superimpose UK parties onto the US political context is a waste of time.

UKIP have been rather adept at not pinning themselves down to too much in particular except for being anti-EU and a vague feeling that things are getting worse and it's all those nasty foreigner's fault; they're picking up a lot of protest votes from people disgruntled with the current situation. there are actually quite a few different, and sometimes conflicting, political groups that make up the party. they will though, eventually, have to coalesce around something and it will probably be a slightly modified version of the right-wing populism and more or less overt racism that the front national espouses. there's a decent portion of the electorate: the racist working class; the scared witless middle class daily mail readers, and; social conservatives who feel left out by the liberal consensus; that can be reached with such a programme.

[Hauldren Collider]

I get the strong feeling the Tories are a lot more conservative than Kentonio would have you believe, having spoken to several british expat friends of mine. Still not as conservative as they should be but hey it's Britain.

[Hauldren Collider]

I don't know enough about the UKIP to decide whether I like them or not. If they're anti-immigration, **** that that's stupid, but personally were I british I'd see the EU as a problematic institution as well. It strikes me as highly undemocratic and an unrelenting force for overregulation.

[C0ckney]

It's a fair point actually, although I do wonder if the expected Lib Dem collapse will be quite as bad as people think when it comes to the election. Or at least that it'll favour the small parties over Labour. People do tend to be reluctant to vote outside the big names at the general.

Re Scotland, SNP seem to have this one in the bag, but I do wonder if Labour will reverse that next time. Can't see Scotland slipping into one party dominance.

yes i tend to agree with you about the lib dems, although the numbers look bad, their strength based on local support will probably save them quite a few MPs. one of the interesting things will be who do they lose MPs to. obviously labour will be eyeing up a few seats in the north, but there are also plenty of possibilities for the conservatives in the south west, especially if they can get their supporters out to vote, while disillusioned lib dems stay at home.

i read a poll today which said that 72% of scottish people said they were 'certain' to vote in the election. this compares with between 50%-55% i the rest of the UK. if i were a labour party supporter, i would be very worried. of course in the long term, things may be different, labour has a lot of residual support and could certainly reinvent itself; though it's hard to see it happening for a good few years.

[C0ckney]

I get the strong feeling the Tories are a lot more conservative than Kentonio would have you believe, having spoken to several british expat friends of mine.

sure, some are, but those in charge have fairly similar views to ken.