Freedom

[C0ckney]

Freedom can have any number of meanings, which makes it very useful for equivocation and as a buzzword or rallying point. We can all like freedom even if we have totally different ideas of what it is.

that's rather what i'm getting at. we all more or less use it to mean something different, depending on our social situation, our political and religious views. it's more than that though, people say like freedom and defend it, but rarely seem to ask themselves what it actually is, or look at the contradictions inherent in their views.

[Elok]

We have similar problems with "equality." Probably not as bad though.

[Nikolai]

Freedom can be a lot of things. One important freedom for a Christian is the freedom in Christ. Which for example means freedom from the bondage of sin and its consequences. In a democracy, freedom is for example freedom to live and think as you like, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone.

[Dr Strangelove]

Freedom is what the slave-owners always cry first and the loudest for.

[Lorizael]

Traditionally, freedom is an absence of coercion. But the coercion we're talking about is usually of the social/political variety. So in a "free" society, you cannot be coerced into silence, or coerced into a particular job, etc. But there's an evolving view of freedom that looks at it as an absence of other kinds of force as well. For example, you can have a freedom from sickness or a freedom from ignorance, which is how you get states with universal healthcare or education.

The difficulty is the tension between what freedom grants and what freedom costs. If you look at freedom as only applying to social/political coercion, then you can think of being free as the "natural" state of things (even if it never exists). Thus, governments cannot give you freedom; they can only restrict it conditionally. So the cost of freedom is that you cannot infringe on another's freedom, for example, and the government can act to ensure that.

If freedom implies an absence of any external forces, then you are not naturally free, and freedom is something a government (or some other body) must grant you. You are not naturally free from sickness. Sickness happens, and preventing/curing it requires positive action. Here the cost of freedom may be different. Rather than simply being unable to infringe on the freedom of others, you are also responsible for the freedom of others. So you pay into a system that affords everybody a freedom from illness or ignorance or what have you.

But the separation is not so stark as that, because every society demands, at least in part, that you are responsible for the freedom of others. To ensure freedom from harm, you pay into a police and justice system. Even your freedom of speech is protected by the courts, and you must pay for the courts. So not only is there no freedom without cost, but there is no freedom that is not granted, from a certain point of view.

[molly bloom]

Freedom is what the slave-owners always cry first and the loudest for.

Thank you, Samuel Johnson.

We are told, that the subjection of Americans may tend to the diminution of our own liberties; an event, which none but very perspicacious politicians are able to foresee. If slavery be thus fatally contagious, how is it that we hear the loudest yelps for liberty among the drivers of negroes?

'Taxation No Tyranny'

http://www.samueljohnson.com/tnt.html

[Uncle Sparky]

Freedom? Freedom is worship-word.

Freedom can be a weasel-word.

Some friends of mine did a remount of Woody Allen's 'God' for the Fringe Festival. Freedom is an illusion.

... and as for using a gun for protection, try using a condom instead.

[korn469]

Freedom to me is generally being able to do as you please without facing negative consequences for your actions. It also means being able to determine, equally and fairly with other members of your society, the fair and impartial process for enforcing repercussions for actions that causes harm to the society and to set each individual's responsibilities they have in society.

I don't think most people are free because I don't think many (if any do) societies equally and fairly determine individual's rights, responsibilities and repercussions. Usually a small percentage of people have an outsized influence on the crafting laws.

Also I think freedom is more than just being free of coercion.

[Dr Strangelove]

Thank you, Samuel Johnson.




'Taxation No Tyranny'
http://www.samueljohnson.com/tnt.html

Did you not realise that i was deliberatley paraphrasing him?

[ricketyclik]

Freedom is not caring. As long as you really don't care, whatever you don't care about has no hold on you. You are free. And empty and alone ...

And freedom, ohh freedom.
Well that's just some people talking
Your prison is walking through this world all alone

[molly bloom]

Did you not realise that i was deliberatley paraphrasing him?

I try not to assume anything about what you're up to these days. One never knows when you're going to turn into a crabbier version of Harold Shipman with a computer keyboard.


Kiss kiss, hug hug.

[Dr Strangelove]

Freedom is relative!

Oh God! I've just committed moral relativitism! Now I'm going to have every Baptist within a hundred miles going biblical on my buttocks!

[Fake Boris]

Freedom is relative!

Oh God! I've just committed moral relativitism! Now I'm going to have every Baptist within a hundred miles going biblical on my buttocks!

FWIW I believe there can be a perfectly consistent and logical definition of freedom.

[Tuberski]

You asked for it:



ACK!

[Lorizael]

I wrote a ****ing ECR for you ****wagons and not one of you can be bothered to respond to it? For ****'s sake, people, it's like you want me to keep posting in my depression thread!