The Impossibility of Growth

[Kidlicious]

30M died in the Great Leap Forward of starvation. It would have been far more humane to kill them some other way. How many resources can we save with that?

[Fake Boris]

But new loans are getting created all the time, because people need to borrow money for various things that they will still need even if the economy isn't getting bigger. No one has to remain in debt forever.

Some people can get out of debt by improving their status - but not everyone can own productive assets. If it were true, then no one would do the actual work.

Think about it carefully, again. When the principal of a loan is repaid, the monetary supply runs out. Assuming economic stagnation, the outcome is deflation. But credit is inherently incompatible with deflation. This is why growth is posited as a necessity, through dishonest and fallacious arguments. Growth in fact is necessary to support the credit system that benefits the world's oligarchs.

This would be an issue if creditors saved 100% of their income, because then their assets would have to keep growing perpetually. However, people don't save all of their income. The whole purpose of having that income is to eventually spend it on something.

The result of which is inflation, in the absence of corresponding real growth. If the money is invested, then the outcome is growth. But growth depletes resources.

Not all credit is for investment- sometimes people borrow because they need to consume more now, and credit is a way to trade future earnings for present consumption.

The intent for getting credit is irrelevant in this discussion. Stick to the question of monetary supply.

The bank exists to deliver a profit to its owner or its shareholders, and will only grow its assets when it expects to profit from doing so.

Correct. If the bank didn't grow its assets, there would be deflation, which is the real threat a bank has to face. Default is but a minor preoccupation compared to deflation.

[Fake Boris]

Pesticides in the atmosphere of the Mississippi
River Valley, Part I — Rain

ABSTRACT
Weekly composite rainfall samples were collected in three paired urban and agricultural regions
of the midwestern United States and along the Mississippi River during April - September 1995. The
paired sampling sites were located Mississippi, Iowa, and Minnesota. A background site, removed
from dense urban and agriculture areas, is located near Lake Superior in Michigan. Herbicides were
the predominant type of pesticide detected at every site. Each sample was analyzed for 47
compounds and 23 of 26 herbicides, 13 of 18 insecticides, and 3 of 3 related transformation products
were detected in one or more sample from each paired site. The detection frequency of herbicides
and insecticides were nearly equivalent at the paired Iowa and Minnesota sites. In Mississippi,
herbicides were detected more frequently at the agricultural site and insecticides were detected more
frequently at the urban site. The highest total wet depositional amounts (µg pesticide/m² per season)
occurred at the agricultural sites in Mississippi (1,980 µg/m²) and Iowa (490 µg/m²) and at the urban
site in Iowa (696 µg/m²). Herbicides accounted for the majority of the wet depositional loading at
the Iowa and Minnesota sites, but methyl parathion (1,740 µg/m²) was the dominant compound
contributing to the total loading at the agricultural site in Mississippi. Atrazine, CIAT (a
transformation product of atrazine) and dacthal were detected most frequently (76, 53, and 53
percent, respectively) at the background site indicating their propensity for long-range atmospheric
transport.

[Fake Boris]

People photographed with seven days worth of their garbage

[rah]

Hmm, looks like most of it is recyclable.

[Fake Boris]

Multiply quantity to factor in the waste that resulted from fabricating them

[Sava]

Multiply quantity to factor in the waste that resulted from fabricating them

Are you going to actually do that calculation? Or just imagine you did with your thought experiments?

[The Mad Monk]

Boy, they really stretched that newspaper, didn't they.

[Fake Boris]

It's just a work of art that made me think of this thread

[Fake Boris]

She'd fit in the babe thread if it weren't for the thrash and the smoke:

[rah]

More of an abstraction than a realistic statement.

[Fake Boris]

Are you going to actually do that calculation? Or just imagine you did with your thought experiments?

We have the results already, no need to do the intermediate calculations.

[Sava]

You should do the same picture, but after everything is mashed and put in a plastic bag

Though, a little bag of garbage wouldn't give you that same dramatic perspective that has you creaming your pants.

[Sava]

We have the results already, no need to do the intermediate calculations.

aw damn

i thought you might actually be helpful to your own cause there for a second

[Fake Boris]

Given pollution, please compute the source.