The Impossibility of Growth

[Fake Boris]

So let it fail.

It's the same thing with the capitalist nincompoops. OMFG COMMUNISM IS SO HORRIBLE IT SUCKS IT WILL FAIL

okay, let if fail

When a system crumbles suddenly from resource depletion, the outcome is incredibly violent. The idea, of course, is to avoid this.

[Sava]

When a system crumbles suddenly from resource depletion, the outcome is incredibly violent.

Citation needed.

[Fake Boris]

Try "history of the world".

Breathtaking evidence shows that people go to war because they need resources.

[Sava]

You seem to be arguing simply for sustainability.

Eco-socialism... or whatever... is not necessary to achieve this.

[Sava]

Try "history of the world".

Breathtaking evidence shows that people go to war because they need resources.

Okay. So no evidence to support yet another assertion.

[Geronimo]

This is irrelevant.

I have shown already that a recycling rate of 90% only gives 75 extra years of growth.

LOL. only 75 years...why the blink of eye in technological innovation!

Surely there would be no incentive over that 75 years to further improve recycling efficiency, right?

Here's a thought, what prevents the recycling rate from exceeding 100% of trash generation? Can't we recycle legacy garbage as well as recycling new trash?

[Fake Boris]

You seem to be arguing simply for sustainability.

Eco-socialism... or whatever... is not necessary to achieve this.

I'm convinced.

Let's just way until corporate fatcats bent on trimestrial results figure out a solution for us.

[Fake Boris]

LOL. only 75 years...why the blink of eye in technological innovation!

Surely there would be no incentive over that 75 years to further improve recycling efficiency?

Here's a thought, what prevents the recycling rate from exceeding 100% of trash generation? Can't we recycle legacy garbage as well as recycling new trash?

The volume of the planet is a hard limit.

Try reading the #413 again. It will help you.

Unless perhaps you believe we'll turn solar energy into matter.

[Geronimo]

Everyone has 500 tons of organic thrash in their backyard, which have been designed to regenerate cars, windows, golf clubs and computers.

Sure. or perhaps there is curbside pick up, depending on the technology and how it is distributed geographically.

[Fake Boris]

BTW, world recycling rates right now are not even 10%.

90% is already incredibly optimistic.

But don't worry. We're just a coming of Jesus Christ away from eternal growth.

[The Mad Monk]

If we mange to hit that hard limit in 75 years, we will certainly have other planets to play with.

[Fake Boris]

Yet another practical, realistic scenario.

[Geronimo]

The volume of the planet is a hard limit.

Try reading the #413 again. It will help you.

Unless perhaps you believe we'll turn solar energy into matter.

If we had fusion power we could mine frickin' Jupiter economically. My take is it's possible the hard end point will be so far out technologically that we have no idea what that end point will look like and its premature to try to plan for the endpoint now. It will take luck and hard work to realize such sci-fi dreams, but they are actually at least as likely, going on the recent record, as failing to avoid the next few short term Malthusian catastrophes would be.

[Sava]

Yet another practical, realistic scenario.

You aren't exactly an expert on practicality or reality.

[Geronimo]

BTW, world recycling rates right now are not even 10%.

90% is already incredibly optimistic.

But don't worry. We're just a coming of Jesus Christ away from eternal growth.

Given that recycling is currently only nudged by a smattering of subsidy, weak mandates and weak and fickle economic demand, I think it is ludicrous to look to the current state of recycling as a guide to what will become technically feasible through innovation as we run out of space.