Chilean activist destroys student debt papers worth $500m

[Hauldren Collider]

Is it impossible for democracy to be the best way to run some places and not the best way to run others? I would argue that there are several countries where attempts at democracy did them no favors.

[Lorizael]

Yes.

[Hauldren Collider]

Well you can't be serious. What's the point of having different governments if different systems aren't better for different places? I don't just mean different national governments. Why does Fairfax County get its own board of supervisors? Why does DC get its own mayor?

[Kidlicious]

Coming back to greece, I remember a german girl telling me how they have state companies (completely funded by the state) but they were run 100% like private companies.
Maybe that's something worth looking into.
That. And nothing else.
We all know luxembourg has a debt that reaches to the sky but, hey, it's where rich folks keep their money.
Altough rich will be rich be that greece the UK US or hell even venezuela.
That's not our compatriots.


national consciousness is code word for filling them fat bellies.
**** that.

What do you do with a 100% government financed corporation when it is failing?

[Lorizael]

Well you can't be serious. What's the point of having different governments if different systems aren't better for different places? I don't just mean different national governments. Why does Fairfax County get its own board of supervisors? Why does DC get its own mayor?

Oh, I meant no. Sorry, I was tuberski-ing and misinterpreted the phrasing of your post. That said...

Citizens should be able to choose their form of government. They may choose democracy, or dictatorship, or communism, but they should get to choose. Self-determination trumps pretty much all else.

[Elok]

Obligatory Burkean objection: does that self-determination apply to everyone at all times? That could be interpreted as a moral license for anarchism.

[Kidlicious]

Well what I have to say, is that that's certaintly not good.
Also that it is interesting to note how journalistic freedom of expression coincides (some times, not always) with high standard of living and narrow gaps between rich and poor

Only if you have an intelligent citizenry. That is usually not the case. The masses are easily manipulated.

[Lorizael]

Obligatory Burkean objection: does that self-determination apply to everyone at all times? That could be interpreted as a moral license for anarchism.

It does, but not in an anarchic fashion. If you decide you no longer like the society you live in, you should be free to leave at any time. (Yes, that gets sticky when you start dealing with criminals. I had a full response to that typed out, but it's really OT. If you want to take the conversation in that direction, though, I have answers ready.)

[regexcellent]

Oh, I meant no. Sorry, I was tuberski-ing and misinterpreted the phrasing of your post. That said...

Citizens should be able to choose their form of government. They may choose democracy, or dictatorship, or communism, but they should get to choose. Self-determination trumps pretty much all else.

I disagree because there are a lot of places in the world where self-determination leads to **** like stoning people for adultery. So I would argue human rights come first, then self determination, then democracy.

The problem there is that there is honest debate about what constitutes a human right (by which I don't mean the disagreement in itself is a problem--I categorically refuse to accept moral relativism of any kind).

[Bereta_Eder]

I believe human rights pour from the collective cosnciousness of a given people. It's a cultural thing that can be cultivated or obstracted.

For example communism turned backward rural peasant communities in the outskirts of the Soviet Union into equalitarian places (man, woman) overnight.

OTOH power corrupts, absolut power corrupts absolutely.

[Bereta_Eder]

What do you do with a 100% government financed corporation when it is failing?

What did you think happen when private companies and banks failed?
Their debt was transfered to the national debt.

[Sava]

Well you can't be serious.

why not?

[Lorizael]

I disagree because there are a lot of places in the world where self-determination leads to **** like stoning people for adultery. So I would argue human rights come first, then self determination, then democracy.

If people are being stoned to death against their will, then they're not being allowed to exercise their self-determination.

The problem there is that there is honest debate about what constitutes a human right (by which I don't mean the disagreement in itself is a problem--I categorically refuse to accept moral relativism of any kind).

And yet I'm sure you think philosophy is stupid and have a poor metaphysical foundation for your system of ethics.

[Sava]

Up already?

[Kidlicious]

What did you think happen when private companies and banks failed?
Their debt was transfered to the national debt.

Do you consider that corruption?