Obama: 1in 5 women have been raped in the US

[Kidlicious]

How can you claim something "works" without making a value judgement?

You can't, but that's not the point. Judging capitalism to work is econ-rational. Not being able to see that socialism doesn't work because of your beliefs is a religious type judgement, not much different from voting against gay marriage because of what the bible says and what your social group believes.

[Lorizael]

I don't see how, after the events of the twentieth century, one can argue convincingly that purely secular ideologies are less effective than religious ones in inspiring sociopathic behavior. The stuff that went down in the camps, gulags and prisons is pretty well neck-and-neck with the worst of the Middle Ages.

That's fair. I subscribe to a ~secular ideology that I believe would lead to less faith-in-humanity-crushing violence (due to its commitment to combating cognitive errors), but I admit I don't have much evidence that that would be the case. The question here is... can you meaningfully lump all religions in one group and all secular ideologies in another?

[Elok]

Not really. Even today, there are ideologies that blur the two, e.g. North Korean Juche. And of course there are plenty of benign belief systems in both camps, etc.

[Sava]

funny how there are modernish evil examples of "secular society" committing evils

there's modernish examples of secular societies being good


where's the example of the modern religious society that is good?

[Elok]

Well, we can start with the core of the Civil Rights Movement (Southern Christian Leadership Conference). Or the devout Catholics who founded Amnesty International. Chestertonian Distributists and Christian socialists. The strong evangelical core of the abolitionist movement, e.g. Harriet Beecher Stowe and Lloyd Garrison. Gandhi. The nonviolent resistance of Tibetan Buddhists. Aung San Suu Kyi. The hordes of missionaries who still provide medical care in the ass ends of nowhere to this day. Desmond Tutu and his whole flock. If it comes to that, there are plenty of Christians who share your progressive politics, even if I personally consider them quislings. And so on.

[Sava]

sorry ******

I asked for societies.

Not individual people living in societies.

It was a trick question because no good religious societies have existed. Ever.

Maybe you can say Tibet? Let's give them a ton of money and nuclear weapons and see how well they behave on the global stage.

Most all human societies have been evil. The few that have been less evil have been secular.

Most everything we know to be good in this world was gained fighting a religious institution, government, and/or individuals.

[Elok]

Just how horrible is your life, that you have to cope with it by first concocting that moronically tribal black-and-white worldview, then spending more than a decade trolling total strangers with it?

[Sava]

someone's got to make *******s feel bad about themselves

i don't mind sinking to that level

someone has to

[Sava]

and "stranger"

i'm hurt

i know you better than most people in your real life, i suspect

i doubt you share your bigotry with the public, this forum notwithstanding

[Sava]

or maybe you are "that guy" and just don't know it

that's possible

[Kidlicious]

"that guy?"

Where do you get your trolling material? Jezebel?

[C0ckney]

[Lorizael]

I agree, but how's a space colony going to help you with this?

A space colony means I'm not going for pluralism. The only people who would be in my colony are those that agree with my wacky ideas. I honestly think more countries/states/polities should be based on directed goals rather than some bull**** like ethnicity or geography or whatever. As for dealing with our psychotic psyche, that's what SCIENCE! is for.

[C0ckney]

i think your space colony may be quite small (as will mine).

[Lorizael]

My cult currently has one member. I just need to make sure member number two is good at recruitment.