Pope sends direct message to Ben

[Kidlicious]

Those weren't imposed punishments, they were just the realities faced by Adam and Eve and every other critter on the planet. Now, why would God tell Eve she will suffer pain in childbirth if this entire episode has nothing to do with having children? When God informs his friends (other gods) about what happened, and I imagine they were possibly amused by God's naivete, he doesn't mention anything about "punishment" or "sin" or dis-obedience. He says the humans have become like them so let us block their way to the tree of life lest they acquire another "power". They're liable to become an even greater nuisance (God's motive for the Flood and Tower of Babel) if they have "knowledge" and long lives.

This all goes back to the conflict between brothers Enlil (sky god) and Enki (serpent god), Enlil was not enthused by the proliferation of people and decided to keep knowledge of an impending flood from them. Enki told the Sumerian "Noah" to build a boat and provided a navigator - the monotheists combined the pagan gods into one but still needed a god to serve as antagonist to make sense of these stories that were already ancient to them.



It doesn't say God took them to the Garden, God took a man he formed after the 6th Day. The woman was not made yet, Eve was formed in the Garden after God decided Adam should have a companion. After Adam searched among the already living animals for that companion and could not find one he liked, God removed his rib and made Eve.

And "eastward" of what? Eastward of the location where God made people. Was it Israel? Maybe, maybe not... The science says Ethiopia. No countries, no civilization, just people spreading out from our ancestral homeland westward of the Garden.

Why did God tell the 6th Day people to have kids and fill the Earth when Adam was taken to the Garden where he neither had a wife or kids nor filled the Earth? It was only after Adam and Eve were given the power to procreate by the Serpent that they were kicked out of the Garden where they could have children and fill the Earth.

It's a story about how we need God. You're being obtuse by putting too much emphasis on words. Like I said, it's not a history text.

[Nikolai]

I mean, I love Jan Hus as much as the next Protestant, but I don't think the Almighty wants us to focus on Hus's glory THAT much .

Bigot.

[Imran Siddiqui]

He wants to be loved for Hus glory.

I mean, I love Jan Hus as much as the next Protestant, but I don't think the Almighty wants us to focus on Hus's glory THAT much .

[Berzerker]

Adam's punishment is work. Eve's punishment is child birth. How is those powers that God doesn't want us to have?

Those weren't imposed punishments, they were just the realities faced by Adam and Eve and every other critter on the planet. Now, why would God tell Eve she will suffer pain in childbirth if this entire episode has nothing to do with having children? When God informs his friends (other gods) about what happened, and I imagine they were possibly amused by God's naivete, he doesn't mention anything about "punishment" or "sin" or dis-obedience. He says the humans have become like them so let us block their way to the tree of life lest they acquire another "power". They're liable to become an even greater nuisance (God's motive for the Flood and Tower of Babel) if they have "knowledge" and long lives.

This all goes back to the conflict between brothers Enlil (sky god) and Enki (serpent god), Enlil was not enthused by the proliferation of people and decided to keep knowledge of an impending flood from them. Enki told the Sumerian "Noah" to build a boat and provided a navigator - the monotheists combined the pagan gods into one but still needed a god to serve as antagonist to make sense of these stories that were already ancient to them.

It says he took them to a garden, which is then described as being "eastward". Of what? Israel? Better question, how would the author of Genesis know that the garden was in fact Eastward?

It doesn't say God took them to the Garden, God took a man he formed after the 6th Day. The woman was not made yet, Eve was formed in the Garden after God decided Adam should have a companion. After Adam searched among the already living animals for that companion and could not find one he liked, God removed his rib and made Eve.

And "eastward" of what? Eastward of the location where God made people. Was it Israel? Maybe, maybe not... The science says Ethiopia. No countries, no civilization, just people spreading out from our ancestral homeland westward of the Garden.

Why did God tell the 6th Day people to have kids and fill the Earth when Adam was taken to the Garden where he neither had a wife or kids nor filled the Earth? It was only after Adam and Eve were given the power to procreate by the Serpent that they were kicked out of the Garden where they could have children and fill the Earth.

[rah]

There is absolute truth. But I doubt anyone has the full understanding of said truth.

I would think that but there are a few people here that seem to be claiming that authority.

[kentonio]

When did different interpretations equal contradictions?

You have basically two different creation stories in the 7 day and the Garden of Eden versions. As the discussion above shows, they don't actually make any sense when considered the same story. The only way they make any sense as a single version is if you make some really strange and wild leaps of faith.

Also as we've pointed out before, if you consider any of it to be literal then we're all descended from some pretty intense incest.

[Nikolai]

There is absolute truth. But I doubt anyone has the full understanding of said truth.

[rah]

So it's wrong. Whenever an interpretation of the Bible doesn't agree with what I believe then it's wrong.

Fixed that for you.

Since christian scholars debate the Bible all the time, I find it hard to believe that there is only one absolute truth.
And find it even harder to believe that our resident morons are the keepers of this non-existent absolute truth.

[Nikolai]

What with all these contraditions and all, you'd almost think the whole thing was just made up..

When did different interpretations equal contradictions?

[Kidlicious]

What with all these contraditions and all, you'd almost think the whole thing was just made up..

It's not a historical account of the events. The point is that human beings need God. God is the creator. He is the provider of the Law. That said, He doesn't want to be loved for just creating and providing. He wants to be loved for Hus glory.

Now none of Berzerkers "interpretation has anything to do with that. So it's wrong. Whenever an interpretation of the Bible has nothing to do with that it's wrong. You get alot of bad interpretations from political types.

[kentonio]

What with all these contraditions and all, you'd almost think the whole thing was just made up..

[Ben Kenobi]

it says God took the man he formed to a Garden he planted in the east

It says he took them to a garden, which is then described as being "eastward". Of what? Israel? Better question, how would the author of Genesis know that the garden was in fact Eastward?

[Kidlicious]

Adam's punishment is work. Eve's punishment is child birth. How is those powers that God doesn't want us to have?

[Berzerker]

Berz, why are you reading it so literally, but you say eating the fruit represents procreation? Their punishment is having children. Their sin was disobeying God.

The story of the Garden doesn't speak of sin and dis-obedience, these are later commentaries trying to make sense of the story. And they are wrong... The reason God evicted Adam and Eve was fear of what they'd become, same reason for the Towel of Babel. Its the Prometheus angle, man was being given powers by dissenting gods and other gods didn't like it, even sent a flood to wipe us out.

Where? All it says is that Eden was "to the east". You're assuming it is written in first person, but it is not.

I'm just reading the text, it says God took the man he formed to a Garden he planted in the east. That means God formed the man west of the Garden. But thats all irrelevant, Eve was not made with Adam. She was not taken with the man to the Garden in the east. She was made in the Garden at a later point in time. That means Eve was not the female from the 6th Day and that casts doubt on Adam being the 6th Day male. Add to this problem the fact God told those 6th Day people to have kids and fill the Earth but took Adam away from that possibility to make him work in the Garden. Huh? Dont you see the disconnect between the instruction to the 6th Day people and Adam's story? Being fruitful and filling the Earth was not Adam's job in the Garden. His companion Eve was an after thought, not the role of the female in Gen 1:27

Show me in Genesis 2 where God says this.

Show you what? Cain and Abel were their first kids and they were conceived right after God decided to kick them out of the Garden. There is no other indication of what the "sin" was, they had kids and that was the consequence of the "fruit".

[Nikolai]

Berz, Adam was the first man. It's right there in the Bible, and you argue out of the Bible. Even if you disregard Genesis: Take 1st Corinthians 15.45: "Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit."