IRS inappropriately targets Tea Party, White House blames Bush

[Felch]

I love the idea of low level IRS employees taking the initiative on something. I'm sure they just thought it up and did it, like Col. Kurtz killing VC double agents.

Holy ****, some of you people will believe any lie you're told.

[DinoDoc]

Tea Partiers, Jews, pro lifers(?); those low level staffers sure seem to be able to get away with a lot in the IRS. Where is the oversight from their own command structure, unless….noooo….that can’t be it…

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

I love the idea that on the one hand people argue it's not a conspiracy it was done by low level flunkies, while advocating all the time for greater governmental roles in general. "We can't control and police ourselves, but damn it give us more power."

[giblets]

Having to fill out extra paperwork when attempting to get tax-exempt status is the definition of government tyranny. I'm pretty sure Hitler did it to Jewish/pro-Israel (as we all know anti-Israel is anti-semitic) non-profits.

[Hauldren Collider]

If you want to reduce government corruption, the easiest way is to reduce government. The more power you give the government, the more opportunity for abuse.

[Hauldren Collider]

Having to fill out extra paperwork when attempting to get tax-exempt status is the definition of government tyranny. I'm pretty sure Hitler did it to Jewish/pro-Israel (as we all know anti-Israel is anti-semitic) non-profits.

Okay, this is pathetic. It doesn't have to be holocaust-scale to be really ****ing bad. Stop breathlessly defending obvious corruption. The fact is that what happened at the IRS is something that we absolutely should not tolerate.

[giblets]

Okay, this is pathetic. It doesn't have to be holocaust-scale to be really ****ing bad. Stop breathlessly defending obvious corruption. The fact is that what happened at the IRS is something that we absolutely should not tolerate.

I just love the idea that bureaucrats won't impose red tape and needless paperwork unless they've received a directive from above as part of some mass conspiracy to annoy the political opposition.

[DinoDoc]

I just love the idea that bureaucrats won't impose red tape and needless paperwork unless they've received a directive from above as part of some mass conspiracy to annoy the political opposition.

These low level staffers sure seem to be able to get away with a lot in the IRS. Where is the oversight from their own command structure, unless….noooo….that can’t be it…

[Aeson]

Tea Partiers, Jews, pro lifers(?); those low level staffers sure seem to be able to get away with a lot in the IRS. Where is the oversight from their own command structure, unless….noooo….that can’t be it…

You're forgetting Muslims and environmental groups. And that it happened under Bush and Obama. Sounds like more of a systematic failure than just politically motivated "targeting".

[Aeson]

If you want to reduce government corruption, the easiest way is to reduce government. The more power you give the government, the more opportunity for abuse.

Depends on what you mean by "easy", and what portion of government you are eliminating. For instance, eliminating corrupt cops would be "easy" by just not having law enforcement. However, that wouldn't really be "easy" on anyone except criminals.

[PLATO]

Depends on what you mean by "easy", and what portion of government you are eliminating. For instance, eliminating corrupt cops would be "easy" by just not having law enforcement. However, that wouldn't really be "easy" on anyone except criminals.

Except for Texans! Yeehaw! It's open season!!

[PLATO]

It is hard to imagine that with Benghazi, The AP phone records, and the IRS "targeting" that something isn't amiss. I know every conservative wants to scream "Obama is corrupt!" and every liberal wants to scream "GOP Whining!", but it seems to me that there is mounting evidence that something isn't quite right with this administration.

Everyone, regardless of political leanings, should welcome an investigation to either uncover corruption or clear the President.

[Jon Miller]

I don't see how any of that is in any way related to the President.

The IRS was done under the watch of a Bush appointee. Unless you think that Obama went under him to directly micromanage (secretly), the notion is ridiculous.

Benghazi also has nothing to do with Obama, and no motivation on his part. I am not saying no motivation for the spin, I am saying no motivation for doing anything wrong (like arranging for the murder of the ambassador/etc).

AP phone records I don't know enough about to comment.

But this is the issue. I have no reason to think, based on two of the cases you mentioned that I know about, that the President has any need of being cleared.

It would be like me saying that Paul Ryan needed investigated about the Boston Marathon bombing.

You need to have some reason to believe that wrong doing occurred and some specific wrong doing that you think occurred. I am not saying that what the IRS did wasn't wrong (although I could understand some people saying that), I am saying that there is no reason to believe that Obama did anything wrong or that it had anything to do with him.

JM

[Jon Miller]

I don't see how any of that is in any way related to the President.

The IRS was done under the watch of a Bush appointee. Unless you think that Obama went under him to directly micromanage (secretly), the notion is ridiculous.

Benghazi also has nothing to do with Obama, and no motivation on his part. I am not saying no motivation for the spin, I am saying no motivation for doing anything wrong (like arranging for the murder of the ambassador/etc).

AP phone records I don't know enough about to comment.

But this is the issue. I have no reason to think, based on two of the cases you mentioned that I know about, that the President has any need of being cleared.

It would be like me saying that Paul Ryan needed investigated about the Boston Marathon bombing.

You need to have some reason to believe that wrong doing occurred and some specific wrong doing that you think occurred. I am not saying that what the IRS did wasn't wrong (although I could understand some people saying that), I am saying that there is no reason to believe that Obama did anything wrong or that it had anything to do with him.

JM

[snoopy369]

It is hard to imagine that with Benghazi, The AP phone records, and the IRS "targeting" that something isn't amiss. I know every conservative wants to scream "Obama is corrupt!" and every liberal wants to scream "GOP Whining!", but it seems to me that there is mounting evidence that something isn't quite right with this administration.

Everyone, regardless of political leanings, should welcome an investigation to either uncover corruption or clear the President.

Eh, I don't think the three issues are related. Benghazi is entirely meaningless, it's just PR not done very well. The AP phone records is business as usual - Bush would've done the same thing and FN would've been highly supportive. I don't like it, but unless Cory Doctorow is elected to the Senate alongside Al Franken I don't see that changing (and he's a Brit, so it's not happening, but who 20 years ago could've imagined Senator Al Franken?).

The IRS targeting is a bit more interesting of a question. I doubt it will trace up to the administration; even if it does originate up there I doubt they're dumb enough to leave tracks like that (but, Nixon...) Realistically though it probably originated from some midlevel guys doing 'due diligence'. The more interesting question, though, is whether a coverup occurred; that is much more likely to trace back to the administration, and would be much more of a scandal IMO.

I'd have to see a bit more evidence of actual wrongdoing, though; I haven't seen a lot that's clearly wrong (as opposed to just being thorough). Most of what I've seen is sort of comparable to Derrick Rose complaining about not getting foul calls; yeah, there's probably a complaint here, but it's not at the level of 'wrongdoing', just a minor systemic bias that ought to be corrected. (Note, I haven't really had time to look at all of the issues, and it's sort of a lot of work given the FN vs MSNBC issues that neither side gives a good, neutral picture.)