IRS inappropriately targets Tea Party, White House blames Bush

[Aeson]

It's like they are trolling conservatives at this point: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...h-care-office/

Maybe they were planning on denying conservatives medical procedures at some point ...

[SlowwHand]

Better yet ... no tax exempt status for anyone.

I've been advocating a 10% flat tax, with no exemptions, for years.

[Jon Miller]

how do you tax when there are no profits?

the issue comes to charitable donations, which is reasonable

JM

[Jon Miller]

by reasonable, I mean it is reasonable t get rid of them

JM
(doesn't mean I think we should, just means that I think such an argument could be made)

[SlowwHand]

No charitable contributions. Nothing. 10% FLAT ****ING TAX. What is so difficult to comprehend? No profit? After the 1st year, they need to fold.

[Sava]

I've been advocating a 10% flat tax, with no exemptions, for years.

That's a terrible idea. Only morons believe in such things.

[SlowwHand]

Looking for votes?
Both Jon Miller AND you need their post count cut in half.

[PLATO]

For that assumption to be supportable I would have had to display a tendency to only address people who I felt were addressing me specifically. I would also have to have displayed a tendency to accept people's assessments of me out of weakness. These are both demonstrably false. Only a great moron like yourself could not see that.

I have addressed people in this very thread who were obviously not addressing me, and do so all the time.

In any case, it's not surprising that to try to distract from the fact that you were acting like a little *****, you've fallen back on a ploy that most people figure out is pathetic at some point in grade school. You're only making yourself look worse.

You really are a moron aren't you aeson? Making myself look "worse"? You are laughable for your stupidity. You think you know things, but you really don't think things through to their conclusion. I am sure you impress many of the "lesser" people in your life who probably think you are smart because of the way you speak. The bottom line is, though, that your are just what I call "surface smart", with no depth to your thinking. IMO, this is the worst kind. I have a lot of contempt for people like you.

[PLATO]

That's a terrible idea. Only morons believe in such things.

Damn! Whenever we agree on a fiscal policy, I have to go back and rethink the whole thing!

Not really, but we do agree here. A flat tax is a bad idea.

[Aeson]

You really are a moron aren't you aeson? Making myself look "worse"?

If your point is you already looked ridiculous and "worse" would be difficult to accomplish ... you might have a point. I still maintain that your initial statement wasn't quite so bad as the one in question though.

The bottom line is, though, that your are just what I call "surface smart", with no depth to your thinking. IMO, this is the worst kind. I have a lot of contempt for people like you.

You're welcome to debate me on any topic you wish. It should be easy for you, eh? I'll just note you haven't engaged me on any substantive point here ... instead preferring to cast vague insults while running away from the topic.

[DinoDoc]

I hope this is true. It's been the most interesting scandal of the three so far:

Democrat Baucus warns: More to come out on IRS scandal

Senior Democratic Sen. Max Baucus, who recently slapped Obamacare as a "train wreck," believes that the IRS scandal is just beginning and that "a lot more" damaging information will be revealed, likely at congressional hearings.

"I have a hunch that a lot more is going to come out, frankly," Baucus, whose pending retirement seems to have freed him up to speak bluntly, told Bloomberg Government's "Capitol Gains" TV show.

"It's broader than the current focus. And I think it's important that we have the hearings, and I think that will encourage other information to come out that has not yet come out. I suspect that we will learn more in the next several days, maybe the next couple three weeks which adds more context to all of this," added Baucus, chairman of the Senate Finance Committee.

But a House leader, Ways and Means Chairman Dave Camp, said the scandal hasn't reached the level where a special prosecutor is warranted.

"I don't think we're [at the point of appointing a special counsel]. At least I'm not there yet," Camp told the show. "We need to know how and why and certainly try to restore the faith that's been broken and the trust that's been broken as people have been targeted for their political beliefs, which is completely unacceptable."

Camp's committee today opens the first of a series of hearings on the IRS and their political harassment of Tea Party groups.

Bloomberg released a series of highlights from the interview, to be aired Sunday. They are below:

Dave Camp on the IRS scandal:

"I don't think we're [at the point of appointing a special counsel]. At least I'm not there yet. We need to know how and why and certainly try to restore the faith that's been broken and the trust that's been broken as people have been targeted for their political beliefs, which is completely unacceptable."

Max Baucus on the IRS scandal:

"I have a hunch that a lot more is going to come out, frankly. It's broader than the current focus. And I think it's important that we have the hearings, and I think that will encourage other information to come out that has not yet come out. I suspect that we will learn more in the next several days, maybe the next couple three weeks which adds more context to all of this."

Dave Camp on the IRS targeting groups for political reasons:

"Clearly there has been taxpayer confidential information leaked, and potentially for political reasons. And obviously only one political perspective was targeted, so it does seem to have significant political overtones. But we just don't know where this will lead until we take a serious look at it."

Max Baucus on the IRS targeting groups for political reasons:

"This actually leads to new momentum for tax reform because this is an important provision in the code. And this provision has raised lots of questions now, and also how it's tied with another significant provision, the so-called section 527. And that's - that's - that's going to help I think encourage more momentum for tax reform.

Dave Camp on republicans supporting legislation to refocus rules on 501(c)4 organizations: Well, this is I think much larger than that because we've had donors who were targeted. We've had obviously confidential information leaked. And clearly we've had one political persuasion group - conservative group had their information held up. So it's just hard to know exactly what the solution will be. But the purpose of the hearings will be to find out is there some legislative action, like tax reform, that would actually give less discretion to the IRS through a simpler, fairer tax code.

Max Baucus on republicans supporting legislation to refocus rules on 501(c)4 organizations:

This actually leads to new momentum for tax reform because this is an important provision in the code. And this provision has raised lots of questions now, and also how it's tied with another significant provision, the so-called section 527. And that's - that's - that's going to help I think encourage more momentum for tax reform. There'll be a lot of senators. The public's going to wonder, hey, what about this statute? Should it be changed? We'll see.

Dave Camp on whether the IRS scandal will slow down progress on tax reform:

I think it just points out how complex the tax code is and - and the discretion then that is in the hands of the IRS because of the complexity of the code. So I think a more transparent, simpler, fairer code is clearly a goal. But obviously we need to find out what really happened here, and then we can decide what conclusions should be drawn afterwards.

Max Baucus on whether the IRS scandal will slow down progress on tax reform:

I don't think this is going to slow down tax reform, not at all.

Dave Camp on completing tax reform:

First of all, we're both [Max Baucus] very committed to doing it. And clearly the complexity of the current code is I think case in point. Secondly, we need a healthier economy. And if we can get a pro-growth tax plan that really brings us into the 21st century, I think that's really something that the American people will support."

Max Baucus on completing tax reform:

"There's a huge need for reform. Other countries have changed since 1986, made their companies more competitive. We have to as well. In fact, there's an opportunity even to get a little ahead of the game. We've got to work now.

"And the big question about revenues is one that I think that can be put off for a while. That should not get in the way."

Dave Camp on specifics of tax reform:

"We get those lower [individual and business rates] by closing off some of the loopholes and deductions and thousands of provisions that have been added to the code. Let's start with a clean sheet of paper and see what kind of code do we want to design for the best economy, the strongest America, the most prosperous families."

Max Baucus on specifics of tax reform:

"Everything's on the table. Everything. Otherwise if we start taking pet items off the table, another group will rationalize their pet item should be off the table. So everything's on the table. We're looking at everything."

Dave Camp on the legislative calendar and getting tax reform to the floor for a vote:

The calendar's kind of like the weather. It's pretty hard to predict. But I think we're all looking at trying to do this as soon as possible and trying to get it done certainly. But this is something we need to get on and just begin to work and really get it done this session. They gave me HR 1, so that's a pretty indication of where the speaker is."

[-Jrabbit]

The lack of oversight into IRS bullying has been a concern for ages, so I think investigating this is a good thing. But the emphasis on partisanship and constant attempts to imply that the White House was involved can only detract from getting any meaningful discussion started. While the "targeting" of Tea Party groups is unseemly, it's not unreasonable to scrutinize anti-tax groups applying for tax empemptions. FWIW, I don't think ANY politically affiliated group should be tax-exempt. And I think the so-called tax reformers should be leading the charge in that regard. But so far, it's all about the politics.

Q. Why are we not hearing any squealing about tax exempt status being improperly denied to a Tea Party group on political grounds?
A. Because that didn't happen. Not even once.

[DinoDoc]

But the emphasis on partisanship and constant attempts to imply that the White House was involved can only detract from getting any meaningful discussion started.

I don't believe for a moment that it was a group of 2 rogue employees that came up with this idea given the coordination between offices involved here along with the illegal leaks of taxpayer records to liberal groups and I think it is totally fair to find out who in the chain of command came up with this idea.

FWIW, I don't think ANY politically affiliated group should be tax-exempt.

I would be willing to concede that the classification is largely BS but until it is changed the law needs to be applied equally to all groups and giving liberal groups a pass while subjecting conservative groups to intense scrutiny isn't acceptable.

[-Jrabbit]

I said:

I think investigating this is a good thing.

[Felch]

The real question is why does any political group get tax exempt status? The law as written says tax exempt status can ONLY be granted to groups which are EXCLUSIVELY for social benefit groups yet in 1959 the IRS wrote a policy statement saying they interpreted the word "exclusively" to mean primarily which just is wrong according to the definitions of the English language.

Just enforce the law AS WRITTEN so that no political group gets tax exempt status and then this problem goes away because you remove the gray area of "are they primarily political or not" and it just becomes "do they do anything political?" and if so they don't get tax exempt status. Make political groups pay their taxes just like everyone else and then there can be no question of favoritism. The whole problem just goes away and all we have to do is enforce the existing laws as written.

Imagine if we got together, as a forum, and figured out a political solution for America that we could all agree to. Let's say that we all agreed to chip in some money to spread this new way of thinking. Would we not be providing society a benefit by sharing our wisdom and promoting solutions to problems? Would it be right for the government to tax the money that we pool together in order to spread this message?

The government shouldn't be taxing political groups because political groups are explicitly protected by the Constitution "Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances;" are providing a valuable public service (whether you agree with them or not, arguing issues in public sharpens thinking and cuts down on bad ideas); and are reliant entirely on donations and therefore have no profitable activity to tax. Money can only be collected from political groups by infringing on the right of the people to peaceably assemble and petition their government.