Blaming Whitey

[Sava]

I guess I believe in more personal responsibility. I don't care if they're black or whatever. Blaming someone else can be a cop out. Blaming yourself can sometimes lead to an attempt to try to correct a situation. There's a big difference. And I agree with a few others that this could be viewed as classist also more than racist.

That's fair. It's not as if we have conclusive proof either way. To me, responsibility is just a word used to assign blame to someone for something... morally, for the purpose of shaming them... legally, for the purpose of punishing them... mentally, for the purpose of motivation or guilt.

But for the purposes of solving problems, I'd prefer to avoid the whole concept of responsibility entirely... especially if we are talking about economic issues. The systems are so complex, it doesn't matter how much free will a person possesses. If we're talking about "cop outs", relying on "personal responsibility" as an explanation is probably the biggest one there is. Why solve any problems at all if individuals are so powerful they are choosing not to solve things themselves?

I don't think individuals are all that powerful. Bill Gates? Donald Trump? Michael Bloomberg? Yeah, those guys are powerful because they wield money and influence... mainly, money. But what about a 4th grader on the south side who is in foster care? Or being raised by a single mother who needs to work 2-3 jobs upwards of 60 hours a week just to put food on the table? How can that kid be held personally responsible for his/her status in life? My sister taught on the south side. The situations are terrible. Those kids have no chance at a good life. The few that make something of themselves hit the lottery, so to speak.

Anyways, TLDR. We're not solving any problems here today. We each have different perspectives. I suspect they are both irrelevant.

soooo GO HAWKS

[rah]

I guess I believe in more personal responsibility. I don't care if they're black or whatever. Blaming someone else can be a cop out. Blaming yourself can sometimes lead to an attempt to try to correct a situation. There's a big difference. And I agree with a few others that this could be viewed as classist also more than racist.

I hope that clarifies things a bit.

And I was joking a bit on the 'middle line' but I would love to be one again

And on the passing generation thing.
When I was growing up, my father did everything possible to not show any racist tendencies. I would have never guessed that he had them. I think that made us a little less so. Now that he's older, I can detect some, so I know he was trying to hide them from us. While I'm not perfect in that regard I have tried to do the same with my daughter and hope she is even less so. That's where I hope the progress across generations will happen. But I am not so naive to believe that everyone is doing that. My father in law was one such. He was a public servant so he was good in public, but at home he was so bad that I tried to shield my daughter from it. I can see that his attitude is reflected in his sons. We pass our beliefs down to our children. I want to believe that there are more like my father than my father in law.

[Sava]

Do you actually think that they bear no responsibility at all?

I don't consider "them" to be a monolithic entity. And even if "they" were, it would be idiotic and pointless to try and quantify a level of blame to specific individuals for the living conditions of communities in many different major US cities.

Human behavior is driven by biology. The whole notion of "responsibility" ultimate depends on the belief in some sort of metaphysical soul or consciousness that exists outside the human body... as if we were really other beings riding around in these meat sacks.

I saw my dad have a stroke when I was a kid. He was paralyzed on his right side. I've seen the effect a significant brain injury has on a person. I lost the man I knew. We are our bodies. I like tits because I'm a man. I get horny because hormones get released in my body. Is my decision to fap to porn really a decision? We might as well debate the existence of God.

I know the urge to blame makes you feel good. Oh, look at the alcoholic. Alcoholism is a problem. The solution to provide the best possible results across a broad spectrum is complicated. I don't know the answer. But to assuage whatever guilt I may be feeling for being powerless to help that person, I'll just say it's all his fault... or the person who enables them. It's their fault.

Blame is an idiotic concept. If and when I do it, it's a cathartic exercise. Human society is a complex system. I know everyone loves to imagine they are these powerful demigods... taking credit for all the good things that happen to them. But life doesn't work that way.

But whatever... go back to blaming the blacks... and the mexicans... and the jews... or whoever else you feel the need to blame today.

Also, I wasn't trying to insult anybody by saying "middle aged white guys". That's an apt description. I'm a 30 something white guy. I don't think getting old is an insult. Young = stupid. Being old doesn't necessarily make someone smart. Dumb people get old too. But being old or older isn't an insult in my mind.

Though, if you rely on your children to reset the time on appliances or teach you how to use electronics... I might make fun of you for that.

[rah]

Do you actually think that they bear no responsibility at all?
How much responsibility do you bear?

I've admitted that my generation does. I'm saying each future generation will feel that they bear less.

If you consider how I believe an insult, feel free to insult away.
If BK thanks one of your posts, that wouldn't make you an ignorant bigot.
(but you may want to modify your insult since all three of us are not middle aged white guys. We're old farts)

[Sava]

Yes, calling him an oreo is much easier than entering into an honest open discussion or admitting that it's because of a complex set of reason and not just "ALL WHITEY'S FAULT".

While my generation still must take blame for a lot of the causes, the younger generations not as much. It's going to get harder and harder to play on their guilt.

How come only middle aged white guys feel this way?

Also, look who thanked you in post #61

I rest my case.

[Pax]

I would also argue that the Africans you come into contact with probably have the same type of superiority complex that you suffer from.

[Pax]

I don't agree with him calling negroes monkeys or savages. That's just uncalled for.

Anyway......ever been to jail? got a felony conviction? did you drop out of school? did you grow up fatherless?
have many children with different mothers? got a decent paying job? have a job? do drugs?

If you answer no to any of these questions, I think you "don't know what the **** ya'll are talking about."

What do you know about being poor and living in a black ghetto?

BTW
you're correct, it is an American problem. All the Africans I know are educated and successful. They don't even understand why black Americans do the things they do.
IMHO, black Americans are there own worst enemy.

If you truly are a black American, then tell me why young black Americans do stupid, violent ****.
Why do they have no pride in getting an education and bettering themselves.
Why do they look down on a brother trying to make it in the world. If he has an education, speaks American, he is made fun of and called a "Oreo" 'too white', now why is that? can you answer? do you even know the answer? will you answer?

These nerd crackers here sure don't know. They would rather pretend there is no problem or just blame lack of education or the history of slavery.
Always making excuses but never looking to find a solution.
If anybody not black brings up the topic, they are labeled a racist and then the topic becomes moot.

I'm first to admit I don't understand black Americans, but I'm not ashamed to admit it either nor afraid to discuss.

At some point, I have mentioned my background on Apolyton.

You actually seem more reasonable than on your previous posts but still...
Based on your questions and your line of reasoning you seem to have a fundamental inability to understand people.
This topic is sort of old and has been addressed. I would suggest you do some research on slang history, language history, different cultures, world history and american history. Specifically the history of poor people, subcultures and minorities in any country. It might broaden your perspective.
When Africans come here, they behave and communicate at the level of society they come into. If they come in as a lawyer, get paid and communicate with other lawyers generally the same way. On the other hand, if they come here poor, they experience the same opportunities and environment that poor people are experiencing and you generally get similar results. Same with Hispanics, Same with Europeans...
Back in the day, you would be making the same comments about the Irish. Or Italians. Or Whoever.
I say this based on my personal and professional experience.

[Uncle Sparky]

Sounds like he could be equally talking about white trash for most of that speech.

You have a valid point. His comments are more classist than racist.

[Dauphin]

In all fairness to doc, many others have voiced similar comments.



If doc said this, people would jump on him and start the racist chant, but in this case, it was Bill Cosby. Even though a lot of blacks were upset by these comments, I won't be calling him a racist in the near future.

Sounds like he could be equally talking about white trash for most of that speech.

[Docfeelgood]

In all fairness to doc, many others have voiced similar comments.



If doc said this, people would jump on him and start the racist chant, but in this case, it was Bill Cosby. Even though a lot of blacks were upset by these comments, I won't be calling him a racist in the near future.

Thank You for understanding

[rah]

Oh, I agree that it hasn't disappeared and there is much more to go, but with each generation more and more people aren't going to feel guilty since they were never part of the active discrimination.

I don't think it will every be totally eliminated, but I'd settle for where it is universally mocked.

[PLATO]

Racism is alive and well today, within all racial groups.

Yes...racism has sadly "evolved". It is no longer the overt thing of the past, but has become a silent block to obtaining equality. The good news is that things are improving...the bad news is that there is a long, long way to go.

[MrFun]

Racism is alive and well today, within all racial groups.

[PLATO]

Yes, calling him an oreo is much easier than entering into an honest open discussion or admitting that it's because of a complex set of reason and not just "ALL WHITEY'S FAULT".

While my generation still must take blame for a lot of the causes, the younger generations not as much. It's going to get harder and harder to play on their guilt.

Are you saying that the current generation doesn't have racist tendencies? I would like to see that as true, but reality seems to speak against it.

[rah]

Yes, calling him an oreo is much easier than entering into an honest open discussion or admitting that it's because of a complex set of reason and not just "ALL WHITEY'S FAULT".

While my generation still must take blame for a lot of the causes, the younger generations not as much. It's going to get harder and harder to play on their guilt.