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Today in History - 60 Years Ago

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  • Today in History - 60 Years Ago

    MOSCOW (Reuters) - A conference held under the auspices of the Russian Orthodox Church is perhaps the last place you might expect to hear a good word said about Josef Stalin.

    The church was heavily persecuted by the Soviet dictator, who died 60 years ago on Tuesday after a three-decade rule in which he is widely held responsible for the deaths of millions of innocent people, many in the Gulag network of labor camps.

    But there is still a place for Stalin in President Vladimir Putin's Russia, and there was plenty of praise for him at a discussion under paintings of cherubs at a church hotel adorned with icons and a portrait of Russian Orthodox Patriarch Kirill.

    One speaker said Stalin restored national pride, another said he laid the groundwork for a great Russian future, and a third said the nation must be grateful to Stalin for the "sacred victory" over Nazi Germany in World War Two.

    "Stalin was no saint, but he was not a monster," said Russian Orthodox priest Alexander Shumsky, accusing Stalin's critics of exaggerating the scale of his crimes.

    He described assertions that Stalin had been in complete control a myth created by liberals and said the former leader had wanted to stop the process of repression.

    Six decades on, Stalin's legacy remains the subject of bitter debate and broad interpretation in Russia, where many still believe he did some good for the country.

    Analysts and Kremlin critics say Putin wants it that way.

    "Putin ... has deliberately manipulated the dictator's image to reinforce his effort to build a 'power vertical' in Russia," the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace think tank said in a report, referring to Putin's domination of Russia under a system that concentrates power in the hands of the president.

    Support for Stalin has risen in Russia since the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991 gutted the social safety net, damaged national pride and left many Russians longing for the perceived order and stability of the Communist era.

    But Lev Gudkov, director of independent Levada Center polling group, said the biggest shift occurred after Putin came to power in 2000 and "launched a comprehensive program to ideologically reeducate society".

    "Putin's spin doctors did not deny that Stalin's regime had conducted mass arrests and executions but tried to minimize these events ... while emphasizing as far as possible the merits of Stalin as a military commander and statesman who had modernized the country and turned it into one of the world's two superpowers," Gudkov wrote.

    SUPPORT IN POLLS

    In a poll conducted by Levada in the autumn, more than two-thirds of Russians agreed with the statement that "Stalin was a cruel, inhuman tyrant, responsible for the deaths of millions of innocent people".

    But he has made a comeback of sorts under Putin, who has centralized control in the Kremlin and drawn from the paternalistic playbook of tsars and Soviet leaders, including Stalin, during his 13 years in power.

    In the same poll, 47 percent of respondents said Stalin was "a wise leader who brought the Soviet Union to might and prosperity". And in a Levada poll last month, 49 percent said Stalin played a positive role, while 32 percent said it was negative - roughly the opposite of a 1994 Survey.

    As the Soviet Union unraveled in the late 1980s when Mikhail Gorbachev loosened the government's grip and oil money dried up, Russians rode the subways reading revelations about Stalin's crimes in newspapers and journals.

    Nowadays, efforts to debunk the criticism and clean up Stalin's image are a fixture of bookshop shelves, and school notebooks decorated with Stalin's photo went on sale last year - something unthinkable at that time.

    In Volgograd, the city where Putin celebrated the 70th anniversary of the 1943 Battle of Stalingrad last month, local authorities now allow the city to be referred to by its old name at annual anniversary events and on five other days every year.

    Stalin's image is far from pervasive, and there are limits to his rehabilitation.

    Calls to change Volgograd's name back to Stalingrad seem unlikely to succeed, and a campaign to return a giant statue of Stalin to a Moscow metro station fell flat in 2010 - though former Soviet anthem lyrics praising him were put up.

    Putin does not go around praising Stalin. He would never, for instance, join the ranks of Communists and other nostalgic Russians who lined up on Tuesday to place flowers at Stalin's grave by the Kremlin wall on Red Square.

    But while he paid tribute to victims of Stalin at the site of a mass grave in 2007 and said the tragedy must never be repeated, he said earlier the same year that Russia should not be made to feel guilty about the Great Terror of 1937, the height of Stalin's purges.

    Worse things, he said, had happened in other countries.

    SIX MILLION DEAD

    Putin has shied away from public criticism of the Soviet leader, whose government is accused by Western historians of deliberately killing six million civilians or more.

    His reticence contrasts with sterner talk from Dmitry Medvedev, the protege Putin ushered into the presidency in 2008 but replaced in May, when he started a third six-year term after a stint as prime minister.

    In a 2009 speech, Medvedev said the millions of deaths and "maimed destinies" caused by the Soviet government could not be justified, and in 2010 he said Stalin "committed many crimes against his people".

    For Putin, such words could undermine the power structure built by a longtime Soviet KGB officer who has brought many former colleagues from security and intelligence into prominent positions and used their successor agencies to quash dissent.

    Historians and activists who seek to document the Soviet government's crimes against its own people are dismayed by Stalin's staying power. They say Russia will not thrive until it comes to terms with Stalin's crimes, but Putin's critics say he has resisted efforts to make that happen.

    While a big new Jewish Museum and Tolerance Center opened last year in the Russian capital, with Putin's support, there is still no national memorial to the victims of Stalin's rule.

    "Discussion of Stalin is not about the Gulag or who won the war, it's about what kind of Russia we will live in," political commentator Konstantin von Eggert told the meeting in the church hotel on Monday.

    "Will it be a country in which the individual exists for the state ... or a state that respects people and works on behalf of free citizens?"
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    Is Russia a nation that is so desperate for Heroes???
    "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

  • #2
    6 million? I thought it was more like 20 million.

    Either way, he was killing non-Russians, right? So clearly he's a hero to the Russian race.
    <Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
    I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.

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    • #3
      Russian isn't a race, Igmo.
      Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
      "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
      He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

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      • #4
        Originally posted by snoopy369 View Post
        6 million? I thought it was more like 20 million.

        Either way, he was killing non-Russians, right? So clearly he's a hero to the Russian race.
        Six million are by direct action - purges and the Gulags. 20 million is the estimated effect of the forced collectivization and other economic and food supply ****ups. Those were primarily disease and starvation deaths, so technically not killed by Uncle Joe.

        Putin just wants to set himself up as Uncle Vladya.
        When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."

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        • #5
          Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat View Post

          Putin just wants to set himself up as Uncle Vladya.
          Between "Sam" and "Joe", the world has had too many "Uncles" as it is.
          "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

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          • #6
            Sigh...can we get a Fourth Rome over here?
            1011 1100
            Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

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            • #7
              Originally posted by PLATO View Post
              http://ca.news.yahoo.com/dead-60-yea...145519665.html

              Is Russia a nation that is so desperate for Heroes???
              I think it says more about Christianity, but you make a good point.
              I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
              - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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              • #8
                One Soviet dissident writer said once, "Stalin was a tyrant, but who wrote four million denunciation letters?"
                Graffiti in a public toilet
                Do not require skill or wit
                Among the **** we all are poets
                Among the poets we are ****.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by snoopy369 View Post
                  6 million? I thought it was more like 20 million.

                  Either way, he was killing non-Russians, right? So clearly he's a hero to the Russian race.
                  Are you trolling, lying or just ignorant?
                  Graffiti in a public toilet
                  Do not require skill or wit
                  Among the **** we all are poets
                  Among the poets we are ****.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by onodera View Post
                    One Soviet dissident writer said once, "Stalin was a tyrant, but who wrote four million denunciation letters?"
                    Those that didn't want to be denounced?
                    "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by PLATO View Post
                      Those that didn't want to be denounced?
                      A lot of them were, actually, for false accusations several years later. But the question still stands: to discuss Stalin here in Russia we should first look at ourselves and shudder. Naturally, many people are reluctant to do so, calling Stalin either a monster or a hero. It's nothing unique, look at American Southerners talking about states' rights instead of admitting the civil war was just.
                      Graffiti in a public toilet
                      Do not require skill or wit
                      Among the **** we all are poets
                      Among the poets we are ****.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by PLATO View Post
                        Between "Sam" and "Joe", the world has had too many "Uncles" as it is.
                        There's nothing wrong with the dream, my friend, the problem lies with the dreamer.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by onodera View Post
                          A lot of them were, actually, for false accusations several years later. But the question still stands: to discuss Stalin here in Russia we should first look at ourselves and shudder. Naturally, many people are reluctant to do so, calling Stalin either a monster or a hero. It's nothing unique, look at American Southerners talking about states' rights instead of admitting the civil war was just.
                          A better example would be the flagrant hypocrisy of the FFs who gave us the slavery problem in the first place. Especially Jefferson. Well, yes, they were slavers, and Indian-butchers, and frequently elitist snobs, and not one of them would dream of letting a woman vote, but we still idolize 'em and a number of (for some reason) respected figures insist we should go by their original intent. Except where we decided their original intent was trash and chucked it...
                          1011 1100
                          Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

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                          • #14
                            Whoever the black guy on SNL said, "I don't want to go back to the original intent of the Constitution. It said I was 3/5 of a man."
                            I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                            - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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                            • #15
                              60 minutes recently had a great piece on corruption in the Russian Orthodoxed Church. Or rather it was really about corruption in the Russian government and how state support for the Orthodoxed Church has resulted in the church itself getting entangled in the government's corruption. With all those Tsarist era churches to rebuild and the vast expenses that entails I can see why church officials would feel they'd have to play ball with Putin in order to get the money to complete those projects but it also means a river of dirty money is being laundered through the church by corrupt government officials. It seems like the church has made a classic deal with the devil to get the money it needs to rebuild what the communists destroyed.
                              Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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