Just remind me..

[Dinner]

The North wasn't a whole lot less racist than the south. And even today I run into a distressing number of racists in the Rochester area, seriously. And Rochester was this huge center of anti-slavery and women's rights stuff.

The anti-slavery people frequently advocated deporting the slaves back to africa because while they thought slavery was wrong, they still thought black people were inferior. Kind of like how people today think fighting dogs is wrong, but still thing dogs don't have the same rights as people.

Stonewall Jackson was less racist than many prominent abolitionists.

A lot of that had to do with poor white laborers didn't want to have to compete with poor black laborers. They had a similar dislike for immigrant whites because they saw them as competing with them economically.

Oh, and your bit about Stonewall Jackson is false. Just because he could be nice to individual black people doesn't mean he didn't think blacks were inferior and naturally should be enslaved. Claiming the "natural condition" of an entire race is slavery is pretty much the definition of racism even if some northern abolitionists still called black people dirty names (at least they were advocating they shouldn't be enslaved).

[Uncle Sparky]

Stonewall

HC sees the 'Stonewall riots' as the most important civil rights event in US history.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Oh, and your bit about Stonewall Jackson is false. Just because he could be nice to individual black people doesn't mean he didn't think blacks were inferior and naturally should be enslaved. Claiming the "natural condition" of an entire race is slavery is pretty much the definition of racism even if some northern abolitionists still called black people dirty names (at least they were advocating they shouldn't be enslaved).

"Natural condition" was a common religious theme for the time - that slavery or whatever other fallen condition (plague, famine, whatever) was God's will, and part of his overall plan. The view was that everything that existed was part of God's plan, and it wasn't for ordinary men to question. Jackson was, in that respect, a product of his times. The vast majority of religiously inspired abolotitionists were pretty liberal/radical for their day and did not reflect the mainstream view of society as a whole or American religious sensibilities as a whole.

[kentonio]

Liberal/Radical indeed. Those people suffered greatly for their beliefs and were willing to put their lives (and their families lives) literally on the line to advance their cause. I simply can't comprehend the lengths that men like Rv. Rankin were willing to go to, and the sacrifices they made. I can only hope that I'd have an iota of their courage and strength.

[Imran Siddiqui]

HC sees the 'Stonewall riots' as the most important civil rights event in US history.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Unfortunately this smart man was shot by his own dumb soldiers... A truly American way to go so to speak...

Hell, I've almost been shot by my own, and that's with modern night vision gear. That's one of the hidden joys of being a Pathfinder. The Wilderness at night with exhausted troops and neither side having a clear indication of their own or enemy or in some cases, adjoining friendly positions is a tough situation. People used fake accents and other deception to conduct recon too.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Liberal/Radical indeed. Those people suffered greatly for their beliefs and were willing to put their lives (and their families lives) literally on the line to advance their cause. I simply can't comprehend the lengths that men like Rv. Rankin were willing to go to, and the sacrifices they made. I can only hope that I'd have an iota of their courage and strength.

While I defend the south's right to secede, and their capability (and most of) their leadership on the battlefield, I don't in the least condone the slavers or profiteers, and I admire the real abolitionists greatly. Distinguishing "real" abolitionists from those "free the slaves to tilt the economic power balance, but then ship 'em off elsewhere or let 'em starve" types,

[Alexander's Horse]

Kentonio can sit up the front with Ben and Mr Fun

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Kentonio can sit up the front with Ben and Mr Fun

Threads with the majority of posts from the aforementioned posters should be labeled as hazardous to one's health. Reading them will inevitably prematurely kill brain cells.

[kentonio]

Kentonio can sit up the front with Ben and Mr Fun

For a post about Rankin and abolitionists?

Threads with the majority of posts from the aforementioned posters should be labeled as hazardous to one's health. Reading them will inevitably prematurely kill brain cells.

The day you post anything other than right wing partisan bull**** or snippy little asshat comments I'll be sure to start taking you more seriously. *****.

[MichaeltheGreat]

[Hauldren Collider]

I'm with MtG here. And although I don't have any respect the Confederate generals' cause, they were quite adept on the battlefield.

[dannubis]

For a post about Rankin and abolitionists?



The day you post anything other than right wing partisan bull**** or snippy little asshat comments I'll be sure to start taking you more seriously. *****.

To be fair to him, when talking about power grids and stuff he knows his ****...

[Lancer]

If the Confederacy had survived until WW1 there would never have been a WW2. The US could not have sent all their troops to France with the border to the South to defend. Germany would have worn down the French in WW1, pressing on to the Channel ports in '17 and '18 in a gruesome finish to the slaughter. The UK would have eventually had to deal. In the meantime the Germans would have been free to exploit the revolution in Russia, and help bring victory to the White Russians while they brought home the food and raw materials from the East since they were cut off by the UK blockade. No communist Russia, no 2nd World War, no Cold War. No Manhattan Project, no nukes... I doubt the US and UK would have ended up best buddies either. The US/Canada border would likely be a possible flashpoint, the UK allied with the Confederacy after they survived the Civil War and showed their mettle. Still, the slavery would have had to go for that to happen, and good riddance. Imperialist Germany would have had a White Russian puppet state into the bargain.

I'd have spent my time in the military defending Washington State, or in the Midwest somewhere looking through my binoculars at Sloww, MtG, damn Yankee that I am.

Edit: I moved to Oregon however, not a state at that time. I wonder who would have won the West?

[kentonio]

Hmm, not sure that's true. The German spring offensive failed before US troops arrived in any great numbers, revolutionary forces were building in Germany and then the flu pandemic took a horrific toll on German troops. I'm not convinced they would have had the strength to force any victory.