Body of Richard III identified

[Alexander's Horse]

there is always a group in the UK who gets behind some villain and claims they were misunderstood, it's a quaint national pastime

My personal favorite for monarchs brought low is William the Conqueror, left for dead, naked in his capital Rouen after a horrible accident involving his horse, just after he had burned and pillaged yet another city.

According to some accounts his corpse was robbed, then it managed to explode at his funeral

http://voices.yahoo.com/the-gruesome-death-william-conqueror-6275432.html

Some saw this as God's judgement on him, a sort of morality tale.

[MrFun]

Do you know what happened to Andronicus I Comnenos ?

One eye torn out, teeth extracted, right hand amputated. Then hauled through the highways and lanes of Constantinople, having human excrement thrown at him, before being suspended Mussolini style, his genitals severed, and then finally the coup de grace- swords run through his mouth and between his arse cheeks.


When you really want to say goodbye, do it in the Byzantine fashion.

[Sava]

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Well, I just assuming lighting cash on fire is a bad thing.

I'm more entertained by the idiocy of the expenditures than I am upset by government waste in general.

[kentonio]

We have to have a war every decade or so otherwise all the chavs get restless and start burning stuff.

[Sava]

We have to have a war every decade or so otherwise all the chavs get restless and start burning stuff.

I only joke about it because the reality of real people having their lives ruined by such things is a bit too upsetting to me.

[kentonio]

I only joke about it because the reality of real people having their lives ruined by such things is a bit too upsetting to me.

Likewise. The reason the Falklands is such a hot button topic in Britain is because everyone remembers the sailors coming home with melted faces and broken bodies as a result of a stupid pointless war launched by a military junta to win domestic popularity points. It's just that British thing, we wave flags and brag about two world wars because we remember the cost and hopefully by making it crystal clear that we will fight when we have to, people will not put us through that again.

[Sava]

Likewise. The reason the Falklands is such a hot button topic in Britain is because everyone remembers the sailors coming home with melted faces and broken bodies as a result of a stupid pointless war launched by a military junta to win domestic popularity points. It's just that British thing, we wave flags and brag about two world wars because we remember the cost and hopefully by making it crystal clear that we will fight when we have to, people will not put us through that again.

If the war elicits such a response and is, as you say, pointless... then wouldn't future military engagement be undertaken only as a last resort?

National pride can easily be turned against a regional or global power... especially if some madman with a suicidal ideology just wants to goad the country into wasting lives and money in some meat-grinder.

[kentonio]

If the war elicits such a response and is, as you say, pointless... then wouldn't future military engagement be undertaken only as a last resort?

Not as a last resort, but with extreme reluctance.

National pride can easily be turned against a regional or global power... especially if some madman with a suicidal ideology just wants to goad the country into wasting lives and money in some meat-grinder.

Yeah, luckily we don't tend to take well to those kind of leaders here. Of course there's no defense against other countries embracing such a leader, but not standing up to aggression isn't going to deter that kind of leader anyway.

[molly bloom]

Skelly bones:




Yes, I know it's from the Daily Mail.

There seems to be a creepy cult of personality in the UK that wants desperately to rewrite the history of this guy and make him out to be some sort of saintly figure.

Oh duh, Sava. Notwithstanding the Richard III Society's output, and Josphine Tey's 'The Daughter Of Time' the first rewriting of history took place after he died- given that he was succeeded by the man he fought against in his final battle, this is hardly surprising. Henry VII's claim to the throne was tenuous, and he faced several rebellions during his reign.

That less than saintly Thomas More was an early example of what we'd call a spin doctor today, and unfortunately for Richard of Gloucester's reputation and public image, Shakespeare made him into one of his more memorable, if less than historically accurate, characters. Villains are usually more fun to play for actors, but Shakespeare's analysis of what makes a successful sociopath has certainly stood the test of time- and his play has been staged in countries around the world where more explicit criticism of the ruling regime would result in imprisonment or death.

If you haven't seen it, I recommend Richard Loncraine's version with Ian McKellen as a 20s/30s style Fascist ruler (apologies for the inadvertently funny narration):

[Dauphin]

Also if people are going to make up theories, it might be nice if they assumed that people then were pretty much the same as people now, instead of assuming they were all ****ing idiots.

People now are all ****ing idiots.

[Dauphin]

Not as a last resort, but with extreme reluctance.

Yeah, luckily we don't tend to take well to those kind of leaders here. Of course there's no defense against other countries embracing such a leader, but not standing up to aggression isn't going to deter that kind of leader anyway.

The UK didn't take well to Tony Blair after 2003, yet the populace still elected him again shortly thereafter.

That war was more gung-ho than extreme reluctance - the reluctant folk were simply ignored by a man whose mantra was effectively "they don't understand, if they did, they would change their mind".

[Dr Strangelove]

The Richard III Society seems to be taking this opportunity to try and clarify Richard's deeds. CNN ran an article from them yesterday in which they claimed that all the crimes that Richard supposedly committed could be dispelled by the evidence...except that nagging "missing" Nephews item....

IIRC they got an actual confession from one of his henchmen, so yeah, he was a child-murderer.

[Dr Strangelove]

It's pretty hard to find a pre-Tudor monarch who didn't have people killed when they found it expedient.

Not to mention the Tudor monarchs and the post-Tudor monarchs

[kentonio]

People now are all ****ing idiots.

Touche.

[kentonio]

The UK didn't take well to Tony Blair after 2003, yet the populace still elected him again shortly thereafter.

That war was more gung-ho than extreme reluctance - the reluctant folk were simply ignored by a man whose mantra was effectively "they don't understand, if they did, they would change their mind".

To be fair, they painted that one as a battle against the evil tyrant. Shouldn't forget that there was a previous war against Hussain that actually was justified, so the ground was already set.