Iowa declares affirmative action for ugly people

[kentonio]

There's nothing wrong with at-will employment - it's symmetric (since the employee has the right to leave without notice). For labor law to be effective it needs to balance interests of employers and employees and be flexible.

There is nothing symmetrical about that relationship. For a worker to leave suddenly can be a big inconvenience, for a worker to be fired suddenly can be life destroying.

People should have the right to hire and fire for any reason they like. If you get fired then find a new job. It's not your right to be employed.

As it should be

There will come a day when both you two idiots have a bad employer experience. When that day comes I hope you remember the kind of callous bull**** you're currently spouting and feel at least a little of the shame you deserve.

Bear in mind that one of the higher costs to a company is employee training and retention. If firing on a whim was the norm, this wouldn't be news.

It's the reason why many American employees treat their employers with a fear/subservience that over here is practically unknown. Knowing that you can't be fired unless you're doing an actual bad job is surprisingly liberating.

[Hauldren Collider]

OK, let's employ a bit of MrFun and Kentonio rhetoric for a minute.

Kentonio just wants people to be unemployed. Someday I hope he goes to the job office and they say no, sorry, all the positions are taken by floaters with no work ethic that we can't fire because we haven't accumulated enough evidence for cause yet.

[Hauldren Collider]

It's the reason why many American employees treat their employers with a fear/subservience that over here is practically unknown. Knowing that you can't be fired unless you're doing an actual bad job is surprisingly liberating.

I think the attitude you are describing is not liberation but in fact laziness.

[kentonio]

OK, let's employ a bit of MrFun and Kentonio rhetoric for a minute.

Kentonio just wants people to be unemployed. Someday I hope he goes to the job office and they say no, sorry, all the positions are taken by floaters with no work ethic that we can't fire because we haven't accumulated enough evidence for cause yet.

If you can't even provide evidence that someone isn't doing their job properly, then there's a good chance they're doing their job properly. Either that or you're incompetent. Over here there's a system of warnings which can culminate in dismissal, and you get a chance to respond at each stage. Crap people still get fired, but everyone else can relax and concentrate on working without having to worry about being fired at any second.

I think the attitude you are describing is not liberation but in fact laziness.

No, it's called being an employee not a slave.

[MrFun]

OK, let's employ a bit of MrFun and Kentonio rhetoric for a minute.

Kentonio just wants people to be unemployed. Someday I hope he goes to the job office and they say no, sorry, all the positions are taken by floaters with no work ethic that we can't fire because we haven't accumulated enough evidence for cause yet.

How difficult can it be to have evidence that an employee is not doing his/her job? If it's difficult, then the supervisor/manager is not doing their job in keep records of employee performance and attendance.

[giblets]

It's the reason why many American employees treat their employers with a fear/subservience that over here is practically unknown. Knowing that you can't be fired unless you're doing an actual bad job is surprisingly liberating.

But that would make the job creators sad and then they would keep all the jobs for themselves.

[regexcellent]

Knowing that you can't be fired even if you're terrible at your job or don't work hard is surprisingly liberating.

FTFY

And yes it is liberating except for the fact that the people around you are worthless ****bags. My evidence for this is my three months at the Federal Reserve Board.

[Dauphin]

There will come a day when both you two idiots have a bad employer experience. When that day comes I hope you remember the kind of callous bull**** you're currently spouting and feel at least a little of the shame you deserve.

Knowing that you can't be fired unless you're doing an actual bad job is surprisingly liberating.

I've had bad employer experiences twice. First time I quit because I didn't want to stick with the firm after the way they treated me -Sure I could have kept the job by rights and claimed constructive dismissal, but I would not have been happy staying. The second time, I saw several people leave with the firm making them clearly unwelcome but acting perfectly legally. They could have stayed by rights, but they would be extremely unhappy.

Because of this I feel saying you can stay in a job by rights is a thin protection. I'd rather have a six month notice period for redundancy or six months paid gardening leave if you are sacked without cause. Would limit abusive dismissals and give you plenty of time to find a new job if you are truly competent.

[kentonio]

FTFY

And yes it is liberating except for the fact that the people around you are worthless ****bags. My evidence for this is my three months at the Federal Reserve Board.

If you have a system that lets **** employees stay employed, that means you have a broken system, not that the entire principle is wrong. As with so many other things, all you have to do is look at the other first world nations who manage this fine. Newsflash, other places do some things better than America.

[kentonio]

I've had bad employer experiences twice. First time I quit because I didn't want to stick with the firm after the way they treated me -Sure I could have kept the job by rights and claimed constructive dismissal, but I would not have been happy staying. The second time, I saw several people leave with the firm making them clearly unwelcome but acting perfectly legally. They could have stayed by rights, but they would be extremely unhappy.

Because of this I feel saying you can stay in a job by rights is a thin protection. I'd rather have a six month notice period for redundancy or six months paid gardening leave if you are sacked without cause. Would limit abusive dismissals and give you plenty of time to find a new job if you are truly competent.

I've voluntarily left jobs for that kind of reason, but its still a hell of a lot better than being kicked out on your arse at a moments notice. If you did get 6 months pay then the sacking would probably be preferable, but there's no way employers are going to go for that.

[Dauphin]

How difficult can it be to have evidence that an employee is not doing his/her job? If it's difficult, then the supervisor/manager is not doing their job in keep records of employee performance and attendance.

Don't underestimate employer incompetence when it comes to HR issues.

[Dauphin]

I've voluntarily left jobs for that kind of reason, but its still a hell of a lot better than being kicked out on your arse at a moments notice. If you did get 6 months pay then the sacking would probably be preferable, but there's no way employers are going to go for that.

My experience is skilled labour. As it is three months is industry standard.

[kentonio]

My experience is skilled labour. As it is three months as industry standard.

Ah, it's usually only a month over here.

[Dauphin]

I have a UK employer.

[kentonio]

Must be your industry then, three months is pretty uncommon in my experience.