Egypt: The first step to democracy is to establish a dictatorship of the people

[Zevico]

Just looking for some silver linings here.

Others include:

1. Finally, the Sphinx will put some clothes on. It must be freezing out there in the desert at night. Will it be a hijab or a burka?
2. Another Wonder of the World: Biggest Tarpaulin covering.

http://pjmedia.com/barryrubin/2012/11/23/news-flash-egypts-islamist-president-assumes-dictatorial-powers/

Mr. Obama told aides he was impressed with the Egyptian leader’s pragmatic confidence. He sensed an engineer’s precision with surprisingly little ideology. Most important, Mr. Obama told aides that he considered Mr. Morsi a straight shooter who delivered on what he promised and did not promise what he could not deliver.

Pragmatism. No need for rules, traditions or ideologies, or constraints on power. Set those aside to achieve your goals--and you'll pragmatically meet your pragmatic kindred spirits on the left.

Funny. Did he promise what he delivered?

Sensing an engineer's precision? From an engineer, of all people? Good work, man! Keen insight! Keep it up! Grade school quality politics.

[Zevico]

Who could possibly have predicted this? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Beuller? Barry Rubin?

[self biased]

aliens.

[DaShi]

I thought Zev and his ilk wanted a dictatorship.

[Al B. Sure!]

First you say you don't want democracy, now a dictatorship is a problem? Why must the political landscape of every country on earth be predicated by what's best for Israel?

[Aeson]

Zev is just worried that the dictatorship won't last long. (Seriously.)

We'll see if he can make it stick, what he does with it, and what happens when they have a constitution. Most democracies are going to see similar tests. The US had a few of them.

Right now it sounds like it's Martial Law without the Martial (as the military is likely to oppose it) until they have a constitution ... doesn't seem like a recipe for successful long-lived dictatorship. (Thus Zev's fear.)

[Zevico]

First you say you don't want democracy, now a dictatorship is a problem?

Democracy is an excellent system for people who understand what it means and how to live by its rules.
Hint: destroying the rules and subjecting yourself to no one is not a means by which to be establish democracy.
Hint: the MB is not a democratic movement.

Nor was Mubarak or the generals. The difference is that Mubarak was an American ally. The other group wants to release terrorists held in American prisons, allies itself with Al Qaeda when convenient (which is often) and would like to see American influence in the Middle East destroyed and more Americans dead.

We don't live in a world of perfect choices. I'm pretty comfortable with preferring a pro-American dictator to an anti-American dictator. If there were a viable pro-American, democratic choice, that might be preferable to both. But that simply didn't exist.

So now we get Morsi. The worst of all worlds. Those are my views. You can tilt with as many windmills as you like: you can't construct an alternative reality where I believe in something I don't believe in. Nor will repeating it over and over again prove you right. You've been schooled. Have the decency to learn the lesson.

[Aeson]

We don't live in a world of perfect choices. I'm pretty comfortable with preferring a pro-American dictator to an anti-American dictator.

a) false dichotomy
b) The track record of your world-view is abysmal.

So now we get Morsi. The worst of all worlds. Those are my views.

Egypt under Morsi right now is no more a threat to Americans than Egypt under Mubarak was. Egypt today is certainly not a threat like Iraq turned into under Saddam or Iran which we helped shape into what it is today by overthrowing a democracy and installing a puppet.

[Al B. Sure!]

a) false dichotomy
b) The track record of your world-view is abysmal.



Egypt under Morsi right now is no more a threat to Americans than Egypt under Mubarak was. Egypt today is certainly not a threat like Iraq turned into under Saddam or Iran which we helped shape into what it is today by overthrowing a democracy and installing a puppet.

Zevico is Australian. He doesn't care about threats to America. All that matters is Israel. Nations must be built around the preservation of the Jewish state and serve no other end.

[Zevico]

a) false dichotomy

As I've pointed out, if there were a third group, pro-democratic and pro-American in Egypt, that might be worth supporting. But not the MB. It's like propping up the Communists. It's madness. It's not a false dichotomy. Simply saying that it is without backing it up and explaining why the MB is democratic or pro-American (an impossibility) leaves you in a bind: you're making a convenient assertion without the facts to back it up. It's fantasy land stuff.

b) The track record of your world-view is abysmal.

No, I'd say I'm pretty comfortable siding with every president in the last six decades (perhaps more) except Obama and Carter on this principle. Perhaps Bush is an exception as well.

It's not all bad you know. The Americans actively funded democratic groups in Europe against the Communists, and worked against the Communists in Europe. They did pretty well there. We got social democrats instead of straight out Coms in power. Often though there is simply no such option to work with pro-Western democrats. I'd say winning the Cold War and securing a non-Communist Western Europe was a pretty good success.

You assert a chain of causation as regards the installation of the Shah leading to the installation of the Ayatollahs into power but I know of no detailed evidentiary analysis that makes this case.

Egypt under Morsi right now is no more a threat to Americans than Egypt under Mubarak was.

Well, let's see:
1. It calls for resistance against the "Zio-American" enemy. That's you, in case you missed it.
2. It endorses terror attacks against American soldiers and the American army.
3. It calls for the release of terrorists responsible for attacks against American targets on American soil.
4. It endorses violent protests against American embassies.

There's a word for that kind of group: an enemy. A movement that seeks to war with your society.

Egypt wasn't perfect under Mubarak or under Sadat. But after the Camp David accords it was not your enemy.

[Imran Siddiqui]

First you say you don't want democracy, now a dictatorship is a problem?

He wants a democracy that does everything he wants. Basically Zevico wants to be dictator.

[DaShi]

He is Morsi!

[Zevico]

Zevico is Australian. He doesn't care about threats to America. All that matters is Israel. Nations must be built around the preservation of the Jewish state and serve no other end.

Keep living the dream, Al. Keep living the dream.

[Zevico]

He wants a democracy that does everything he wants. Basically Zevico wants to be dictator.

Oh child. Why so much hate?

[DaShi]

You bring that out in people.