benghazi conspiracy = birthers

[MrFun]

Also, is MrFun's total lack of concern over the Benghazi attack a sign of his political/partisan bias? I don't pretend to know his deeper thoughts and motivations, but it does seem a little strange.

(reads Felch's sig line)

[DinoDoc]

Also, is MrFun's total lack of concern over the Benghazi attack a sign of his political/partisan bias? I don't pretend to know his deeper thoughts and motivations, but it does seem a little strange.

The desire among some to treat this as simply the cost of doing business given the circumstances leading up to it is a little bewildering.

[Felch]

I'm no fan of Bush, and I see Obama as a continuation of most of Bush's mistakes. Pretending like the death of four Americans in a consulate attack is somehow a partisan smear is good politics, but bad public policy.

[DaShi]

If only someone could weigh in here with State Dept. experience, ideally someone who's also served in a war zone and been in an embassy during a rocket attack. But where could we find such a person?

Oh, wait.

Look, here's the deal: If there's one single factor that stands out in the whole Benghazi mess, it's that our embassy was not a secure structure. Why was that? It's because the Benghazi was the capital of the Gaddafi resistance, so we felt it important to have diplomatic representation there, and felt we couldn't wait years (yes years) until we could get a facility built to USG specifications. Was that a wise decision? That evaluation is above my pay grade, but it is a decision consistant with the emphasis on "expeditionary diplomacy" begun under Condi Rice and continued under Hillary. To the extent that putting diplomats in harms way is a bad idea -- and there are plenty of folks in the Foreign Service who think it is, not because they're cowards but because diplomats can't actually do there jobs in a war zone -- it's a bi-partisan bad idea.

And one other thing: there's nothing that makes the death of an Ambassador more tragic that the death any other diplomat. Period. To suggest otherwise is to fail to understand both the Foreign Service and the value of lives in a democratic society.

But..but in hindsight...

[DaShi]

My high school Artificial Intelligence teacher recently got a PhD in computational fluid dynamics. One of the projects he worked on during his thesis was bomb-proofing US embassies in the middle east. The US already spends gobs on money on trying to keep embassies secure. At some point, preparation only does so much.

(I have heard that he got offers from Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman to make gobs of money but he is back at TJHSST teaching computer science. I guess he just doesn't like money all that much.)

Or he sucks.

[regexcellent]

I don't care about whether the embassy should have had more defenses at this point. I want to know where the whole video thing came from, what idiot came up with the idea that it was a "spontaneous protest" and how far his head is stuck up his own ass.

[Felch]

But..but in hindsight...

The State Department isn't your local Parks Department; they don't put up plans for community approval or hold town halls or anything. They act in secret, and they do what they think is best, and the only people who know anything are sworn to secrecy. That doesn't mean that they should be immune to criticism after the fact. If we can't criticize our government for how it does its job, because "hindsight is 20/20" or some other bull**** don't-blame-me platitude, then we might as well just give up with democracy. Either public officials are accountable for their decisions, or they aren't.

[DaShi]

Never said that you couldn't criticize them in hindsight. It's just not a strong position to criticize from.

[Felch]

Not having a time machine, hindsight is the only sight I've got.

[DaShi]

Dude, it's 2490, you've got to get a time machine!

[Felch]

[-Jrabbit]

I don't care about whether the embassy should have had more defenses at this point. I want to know where the whole video thing came from, what idiot came up with the idea that it was a "spontaneous protest" and how far his head is stuck up his own ass.

So you don't care about the safety of the diplomats, but are all-in on tracking down the source of the stupid video story. Apparently for the lulz.

Sorry dude, that's just stupid.

[MrFun]

The State Department isn't your local Parks Department; they don't put up plans for community approval or hold town halls or anything. They act in secret, and they do what they think is best, and the only people who know anything are sworn to secrecy. That doesn't mean that they should be immune to criticism after the fact. If we can't criticize our government for how it does its job, because "hindsight is 20/20" or some other bull**** don't-blame-me platitude, then we might as well just give up with democracy. Either public officials are accountable for their decisions, or they aren't.

That's what a lot of Bush's poodles/tools said when others criticized the Bush administration with 9/11. "You lousy Democrats sure find it easy to criticize from the advantage of hindsight!"

[Zevico]

So you don't care about the safety of the diplomats, but are all-in on tracking down the source of the stupid video story. Apparently for the lulz.

Sorry dude, that's just stupid.

No, not "for the lulz", but because the idea of this being about a video was "just stupid."

[Felch]

That's what a lot of Bush's poodles/tools said when others criticized the Bush administration with 9/11. "You lousy Democrats sure find it easy to criticize from the advantage of hindsight!"

And it's just as invalid now as it was then. If you're so sure that you're better than the Bush fanboys, why do you insist on stealing from their playbook? Why not elevate the level of discourse?