CanPol: *****-umen Showdown

[Hauldren Collider]

No, that would be idiotic. Who cares if the Chinese own the oil fields? Canada still gets the tax money either way, and Canadians get jobs either way. It's like complaining about outsourcing. Only anti-trade idiots do it.

[Jon Miller]

I can understand why people would care who owns what.

But the chinese should be wealthy, they have been working hard/producing a lot. So they should be owners too.

JM

[Wezil]

Forget the BC government, BC natives will be the big obstacle.

There won't be much $$ left once Alberta pays off everyone with their hand out. It looks like AB could really use some supporters. Too bad they don't seem to think so.

[Asher]

Forget the BC government, BC natives will be the big obstacle.

There won't be much $$ left once Alberta pays off everyone with their hand out. It looks like AB could really use some supporters. Too bad they don't seem to think so.

Just means it's time to get buddy buddy with Washington State.

BC wants to hold Canada hostage unless you pay a toll to use their ports. It's rather unconscionable as a Canadian to do such a thing.

[Wezil]

Despite your opening post - Their (the BC gov's) concerns are legit.

A oil spill off the coast would be an order of magnitude worse than a spill from a pipeline leak. Just saying "Don't worry, we'll clean up the inevitable spill" isn't very reassuring.

But again, this is only a sideshow. The natives are your real problem.

[Asher]

Despite your opening post - Their (the BC gov's) concerns are legit.

A oil spill off the coast would be an order of magnitude worse than a spill from a pipeline leak. Just saying "Don't worry, we'll clean up the inevitable spill" isn't very reassuring.

How many tankers have spilled oil in the past decade?

They're ridiculous -- triple hulled, computer-controlled guidance over very well-charted water, etc. The pipeline is actually the riskier part, not the off-shore spill.

Still, they're already getting something like $7B out of it. That's a lot of money for agreeing to have people spend billions of dollars and generating thousands of jobs in your province.

[Wezil]

Why only a decade? Will you only use this pipeline for ten years?

Money in compensation for damage is nice but you still have the damage.

Unlike Albertans, the rest of us have a hard time accepting the 0% environmental damage spin that you guys lap up so readily (still an almost unanimous gut laugher whenever I mention it to non-Albertans).

[Wezil]

Enbridge.

Wasn't their last spill reaction referred to as "Ketstone cops"?

[Asher]

Why only a decade? Will you only use this pipeline for ten years?

Because tankers today are not the tankers of 10 years ago. There's been a ton of regulation changes.

This is the problem, no one seems to know what they're talking about but that doesn't stop them from being all-knowing.

BC is trying to cash in, there's nothing else about it. If they were truly that "concerned" about environmental disasters, they simply wouldn't allow it AT ALL. They're happy to have the pipeline, they're just trying to take advantage of the situation to wring (more) money out of Alberta.

[Asher]

http://www.calgaryherald.com/opinion/columnists/Corbella+fight+between+Alison+Redford+Christy+Clark/6985810/story.html

Cat fight between Alison Redford, Christy Clark will heat up premiers' meeting

It's not politically correct to call it this, but a real cat fight has broken out between B.C. Premier Christy Clark and Alberta Premier Alison Redford. One of my colleagues jokingly called the war of words between the two women "premieron-premier violence."

While it hasn't come to blows, the rhetorical rage between Canada's two most western premiers has ramped up to an uncharacteristic hissing match.

By some accounts, things didn't go well between the two last Thursday, when Clark flew to Edmonton for a surreptitious meeting at the Alberta legislature.

Clark played coy, avoiding media by having Redford's office set up a running black SUV playing decoy out front while Clark sneaked out a side door to avoid reporters. Where's Greenpeace when you need them? I thought idling vehicles is a veritable crime nowadays?

On Monday, Clark's Liberal government held a news conference that revealed the five conditions that would allow for Enbridge's Northern Gateway pipeline to be built from near Edmonton to Kitimat, B.C.

Some of the conditions - including using the top environmental standards to build the pipeline and to cleanup an unlikely spill on land or sea - are no brainers.

B.C. also demands that Enbridge consult with affected aboriginal groups, which is happening now. What's more, the oilsands industry is recognized as a leader in providing high-paying work and training programs for aboriginals - to the point that earlier this year, Eric Newell, the former CEO and president of Syncrude was chosen as the second recipient of the award for excellence in aboriginal relations from the Canadian Council for Aboriginal Business. The first recipient last year was former prime minister Paul Martin.

Ultimately, it comes down to money. Clark wants Alberta to share its resource royalties for allowing the building of the pipeline, of which 58 per cent of it runs through B.C. As has already been expressed by Redford and Saskatchewan Premier Brad Wall, such a deal would set a dangerous precedent in Canada and could grind co-operation and the movement of each province's respective natural resources to a grinding halt.

In Halifax for the Council of the Federation meeting that starts today and runs until Friday, Clark said, that unless Redford agrees to give more money to B.C., Northern Gateway will not be built with B.C.'s blessing.

"If Alberta doesn't decide they want to sit down and engage, the project stops. It's as simple as that," Clark said in an interview Tuesday.

"So the ball is in Alberta's court today to decide whether or not they want to sit down."

Alberta Premier Alison Redford used more diplomatic language, accusing Clark of "pitting one province against the other."

Redford said that she believes Clark is suggesting "that somehow the fundamental fiscal arrangements of confederation need to change.

"When you start doing that, that means every commercial project in Canada will now become or would become a matter for interprovincial negotiation."

Clark's response bordered on insulting.

"I think it's a little unreasonable to suggest that I'm trying to destroy confederation. I'm only trying to get B.C.'s fair share out of this project and make sure we're protecting our environment. It's as simple as that," she said.

"It doesn't have to be some massive project to reopen the constitution for heaven's sake. That's just silly," she added.

Those comments are akin to a cat hissing, raising it's hackles and baring its teeth.

Whenever you see words like "for heaven's sake" and "silly" used by a politician, they are really saying, "my opponent is an idiot."

"We need to sit down as provinces and with the federal government and have a discussion and a negotiation about how B.C. is going to get its fair share. It doesn't mean some rebalancing of the country for goodness sake."

"For goodness sake," is another hiss.

Maybe if Clark learned the language of diplomacy, she wouldn't be so unpopular.

When Clark was asked what powers B.C. has to prevent the pipeline from being built, Clark said her government would have to issue about 60 permits for it to go ahead, and BC Hydro needs to provide power.

But, Clark said it would never come to that.

"It is impossible to imagine that this project could go ahead, through British Columbia, over the objections of the government of the province. It's just impossible to imagine," she said.

She's right. That would be a huge mistake and would never happen.

The proposed pipeline is expected to pump $81 billion in tax revenue into the Canadian economy over 30 years. B.C. would receive about one-tenth of that.

If B.C. wants a bigger cut of the pie, it needs to open discussions with the federal government for that. It can also discuss receiving more money from Enbridge directly. But expecting a toll from a provincial government or even more royalties from Alberta directly would create a tit-for-tat mess that would damage Canada.

Clark reiterated Tuesday what was repeated Monday all day long, that B.C. would assume 100 per cent of the environment marine risk and 58 per cent of the land risk from the pipeline, that would move 500,000 barrels of bitumen per day. But she's incorrect. Enbridge would assume 100 per cent of the cleanup cost of a land spill and the shipping company would be responsible for a marine spill. Taxpayers would not be forced to pay.

Alas, unlike most Council of the Federation meetings, this one promises to be as exciting as a cat fight.

[Main_Brain]

When Russia and Germany had a similiar Problem with Poland we built the Pipeline arround it. Guess thats not an Option here?

[H Tower]

Alllow me to fill in for Alby, as he hasn't posted yet.

"Women and politics, or power, don't mix. Nothing good ever came out a woman in charge."

[Wezil]

When Russia and Germany had a similiar Problem with Poland we built the Pipeline arround it. Guess thats not an Option here?

Sure. That's the Washington State option Asher mentioned.

In all likelihood it will be the easiest route. I don't know why it isn't the 1st option, perhaps Asher can provide that.


BC isn't going to be agreeable at the price offered and as I have pointed out a couple times the natives are almost 100% opposed. This pipeline has some very big hurdles if it is going through BC.

[Wezil]

Because tankers today are not the tankers of 10 years ago. There's been a ton of regulation changes.

This is the problem, no one seems to know what they're talking about but that doesn't stop them from being all-knowing.

Are you really arguing tanker spills are a thing of the past? Really?

Can I add that to the 0% enviro damage claim?

[Elok]

I don't think I'd be terribly fussed about this in any case, but crop yields are already declining from the screwy weather here on the Eastern Shore. I'm not going to fret over lost opportunities to transfer yet more carbon into the atmosphere.

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2012-07-17/news/bal-wx-md-drought-conditions-20120717_1_extreme-drought-drought-conditions-spotty-rain