U.N. Agreement Should Have All Gun Owners Up In Arms

[Dinner]

If you're lucky.

An apt punishment for burglary.

I wonder how many people get killed by guns in fits of rage during domestics for every burglar?

I'd guess dozens but that fact doesn't matter to the gun nuts.

[Dinner]

Some states choose to have permits and licensing, but there's no requirement that they do so.

There should be as part of the "well regulated" part in the 2nd.

[Hauldren Collider]

Except that the SENATE would need to approve it. The president can only give the treaty to the Senate for approval, he can't do anything on his own.

Not only that but treaties require 2/3rds of the senate to vote for it. Good luck finding 13 Republican senators to approve this thing.

[regexcellent]

There should be as part of the "well regulated" part in the 2nd.

That's not what "well regulated" means in that context. The "regulation" refers to things having regular equipment, and possibly (but not necessarily) training. "Regulated" there is in the same sense as "regular soldier."

[Lonestar]

Not only that but treaties require 2/3rds of the senate to vote for it. Good luck finding 13 Republican senators to approve this thing.

What's great about all this is that Ben teaches US history.

[kentonio]

That's not what "well regulated" means in that context. The "regulation" refers to things having regular equipment, and possibly (but not necessarily) training. "Regulated" there is in the same sense as "regular soldier."

Hmm..

The project of disciplining all the militia of the United States is as futile as it would be injurious if it were capable of being carried into execution. A tolerable expertness in military movements is a business that requires time and practice. It is not a day, nor a week nor even a month, that will suffice for the attainment of it. To oblige the great body of the yeomanry and of the other classes of the citizens to be under arms for the purpose of going through military exercises and evolutions, as often as might be necessary to acquire the degree of perfection which would entitle them to the character of a well regulated militia, would be a real grievance to the people and a serious public inconvenience and loss.
--- The Federalist Papers, No. 29.

It would appear that no American should be allowed to own a gun unless they have undergone rigorous military training which would classify them as 'well regulated' in the sense that was intended at the time. Your comment about training 'not necessarily' being required would seem to be directly contradicted by Hamilton.

[kentonio]

What's great about all this is that Ben teaches US history.

If there's anything more futile in life than arguing with Americans about guns, it's trying to teach Ben basic history.

[giblets]

Hmm..



It would appear that no American should be allowed to own a gun unless they have undergone rigorous military training which would classify them as 'well regulated' in the sense that was intended at the time. Your comment about training 'not necessarily' being required would seem to be directly contradicted by Hamilton.

Hamilton states that a federally regulated militia will be more uniform and beneficial to the "public defense" of Americans. He argues that an excessively regulated militia can harm a nation's work force, as not everyone can leave their profession to go through military exercises. Thus, a smaller, but still well-regulated militia, is the answer. This force will be further complemented by the "people at large," who can "stand ready with arms to defend their rights and those of their fellow-citizens." In the end, Hamilton concludes that the militia, as it is constituted directly of the people and managed by the states, is not a danger to liberty when called upon by federal authority.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalist_No._29

This has nothing to do with whether citizens can be forbidden to own weapons.

[kentonio]

This has nothing to do with whether citizens can be forbidden to own weapons.

It has to do with the definition of a 'well regulated militia'. Regardless of Hamiltons views, it does seem to provide clarity for what that term means.

[notyoueither]

At least our burglars get their heads blown off.

As do many people who live in homes with guns in them.

[Felch]

Accidental deaths should only bother Creationists. Anybody who accepts the science of evolution knows that dumbasses need to be culled.

[regexcellent]

As do many people who live in homes with guns in them.

No proper study has been done on the likelihood of being killed with a gun based on gun ownership. Studies which have been done typically fail to take into account that many gun owners purchase their firearms because they know that they are likely to be attacked. For instance, people who hold restraining orders against others or live in dangerous areas are likely to seek weapons for personal protection.

[regexcellent]

If there's anything more futile in life than arguing with Americans about guns, it's trying to teach Ben basic history.

Being wrong does make it harder to argue.

[Imran Siddiqui]

It would appear that no American should be allowed to own a gun unless they have undergone rigorous military training which would classify them as 'well regulated' in the sense that was intended at the time. Your comment about training 'not necessarily' being required would seem to be directly contradicted by Hamilton.

There is the problem that Alexander Hamilton wasn't in Congress when the 2nd Amendment, along with the rest of the Bill of Rights, was drafted and passed (he was Secretary of the Treasury at the time).

[notyoueither]

No proper study has been done on the likelihood of being killed with a gun based on gun ownership. Studies which have been done typically fail to take into account that many gun owners purchase their firearms because they know that they are likely to be attacked. For instance, people who hold restraining orders against others or live in dangerous areas are likely to seek weapons for personal protection.

I said living in a home with guns. Not owning a gun personally.