How would a rape/incest exception be implemented?

[Asher]

While I understand and appreciate the point Kuci is trying to make, it does seem to belittle the issue of rape. It is far more common than most people think--every single person in this thread knows someone who has been raped, I guarantee it. You may not know that you do, but you do.

I'm sorry to hear that, Guy.

If the only way to get an abortion is by a "rape or incest" exemption, how much do you want to bet rape accusations would skyrocket?

[giblets]

Hardly moreso than forcing anyone to keep it! Else you think it is right and just that the punishment for unprotected sex is to spend nine months with a debilitating illness that takes over your entire life and has permanent physiological effects.

People who find the "rape or incest" example convincing have a ****ed up value system.

If they weren't raped then at least it's their fault they have an embryo. I mean, duh. That's just glaringly obvious. It's worse when bad things happen to people who are in no way responsible for it. No, I don't think people need to be punished for having sex. I think there is a big difference between being a rape victim and simply having consensual sex.

[Felch]

There are parts of the world where rape victims are killed by their families in order to mitigate the dishonor of the rape. Here in the west, we kill the innocent fetus in order to mitigate the dishonor of the rape. Is that what people consider progress?

The sad fact is that you can be convicted of rape and serve between five and ten years, but if your father was a rapist you can be killed for it. What kind of ******* would defend such a system?

[giblets]

There are parts of the world where rape victims are killed by their families in order to mitigate the dishonor of the rape. Here in the west, we kill the innocent fetus in order to mitigate the dishonor of the rape. Is that what people consider progress?

The sad fact is that you can be convicted of rape and serve between five and ten years, but if your father was a rapist you can be killed for it. What kind of ******* would defend such a system?

What kind of dumbass thinks an embryo is a person who has something to lose by getting aborted?

[Asher]

There are parts of the world where rape victims are killed by their families in order to mitigate the dishonor of the rape. Here in the west, we kill the innocent fetus in order to mitigate the dishonor of the rape. Is that what people consider progress?

The sad fact is that you can be convicted of rape and serve between five and ten years, but if your father was a rapist you can be killed for it. What kind of ******* would defend such a system?

An ******* that understands that an early-development fetus is not a person.

[Kuciwalker]

While I understand and appreciate the point Kuci is trying to make, it does seem to belittle the issue of rape. It is far more common than most people think--every single person in this thread knows someone who has been raped, I guarantee it. You may not know that you do, but you do.

Now, that said, I think what Kuci was trying to get at was using that sort of victimhood to make a political or philosophical point is, to put it charitably, ugly, and on that score he is correct.

Not quite. I'm saying that if you think abortion is murder, then rape or incest shouldn't enter the equation - the evil of forcing a rape victim to bear the child is bad, but much less so than murder. If you think abortion is just a normal medical procedure without ethical implications, then it is already incredibly cruel to deny it to non-rape victims. If only the additional cruelty of denying it to rape victims convinces you, that's bad.

[Guynemer]

I'm sorry to hear that, Guy.

Erm... not sure, but I get the impression that I gave you the impression that I was raped. Which is false, and I apologize if that is the case.

I meant everyone here knows a woman who has been raped.

[Kuciwalker]

If they weren't raped then at least it's their fault they have an embryo.

Yes, and I'm accusing you for thinking this matters much at all. Abortion is a fairly cheap medical procedure that prevents nine months of debilitating illness. Victims of car accidents are also frequently at fault, but that's no reason to make seat belts illegal.

[Guynemer]

Not quite. I'm saying that if you think abortion is murder, then rape or incest shouldn't enter the equation - the evil of forcing a rape victim to bear the child is bad, but much less so than murder. If you think abortion is just a normal medical procedure without ethical implications, then it is already incredibly cruel to deny it to non-rape victims. If only the additional cruelty of denying it to rape victims convinces you, that's bad.

Gotcha. Mea culpa.

As to the OP, it is, quite simply, a logistical nightmare, and completely untenable.

[giblets]

Yes, and I'm accusing you for thinking this matters much at all. Abortion is a fairly cheap medical procedure that prevents nine months of debilitating illness. Victims of car accidents are also frequently at fault, but that's no reason to make seat belts illegal.

WTF? I didn't say rape makes it bad, I've been claiming the whole time that rape makes it even worse.

[Felch]

An ******* that understands that an early-development fetus is not a person.

Personhood is a legal status, and is subject to change.

[Wiglaf]

Getting back to the thread's purpose, there are numerous ways to verify a woman's story that she was raped. I used to work in intelligence, and I could often tell if a terror suspect was lying about his intentions of smuggling weapons into the country, or something like that. It is exceptionally easier to detect lies among normal American females, who are extraordinarily bad liars because they are so emotional. I think you could just set up a "Rape Camp" of sorts were women go to be interviewed by behavioral experts (like the low-level ones employed by the TSA) and asked to vividly describe their rape. If they did so without breaking down, they are likely liars. There are other signs to look for, too, but fake crying is always easiest to spot.

[Elok]

If the only way to get an abortion is by a "rape or incest" exemption, how much do you want to bet rape accusations would skyrocket?

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. If you made a police report mandatory, it would at least discourage those who weren't raped, but it would also likely discourage a large percentage (possibly even a majority) of those who were. And after a while, false reports would simply clog up the system, because the exception would give women a big perverse incentive and the police wouldn't have the resources, or even the hypothetical ability, to get to the bottom of every lie. A large number of real rapes boil down to he-said she-said. The ironic result might be to decrease the likelihood of rape victims getting justice.

If the law doesn't get involved, you're going to see thousands reporting rapes, but only at a clinic, and a substantial number of doctors will sigh, throw up their hands and say "**** it, let's just do this" regardless of how they feel about the procedure.

[Asher]

Personhood is a legal status, and is subject to change.

Personhood is a philosophical question.

[Wiglaf]

Another thing, rape camps would not need to have on-site behavioral experts. They could just be video feeds to a centralized rape camp in D.C. or something. 95% of lie detection can be done via video.