North Carolina (in before MrFun!)

[The Mad Monk]

Wait. There are legal adoption agencies that don't contract with the state?

[giblets]

The point is that being able to have an adoption agency and being able to perform marriage ceremonies are not comparable.

[regexcellent]

Just because the Catholics don't want to allow gay people to adopt from them doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to provide adoption services. Saying that they should "stop being bigoted" is stupid for two reasons: 1) Their religious beliefs do not in themselves amount to bigotry, and 2) They have a right to those beliefs regardless.

In any case, there is a reasonable claim to be made that one would trust a traditional family setting to be a better environment for a child than a novel and untested one.

[regexcellent]

On the other hand, this anti-catholic crap going around this board does amount to bigotry.

[giblets]

Just because the Catholics don't want to allow gay people to adopt from them doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to provide adoption services. Saying that they should "stop being bigoted" is stupid for two reasons: 1) Their religious beliefs do not in themselves amount to bigotry, and 2) They have a right to those beliefs regardless.

In any case, there is a reasonable claim to be made that one would trust a traditional family setting to be a better environment for a child than a novel and untested one.

Claiming that it's never acceptable for a homosexual couple to adopt and that such would be harmful to children does amount to bigotry. And not all Catholics are bigoted against homosexuals, I should add because apparently some people have decided that criticizing the Catholic church is evidence of anti-Catholic prejudice.

[regexcellent]

Thinking that having a mother and a child is the proper family environment for a child doesn't imply bigotry toward homosexuals. That's like saying that thinking Kinshasa is a bad place to raise a family implies bigotry against the Congolese.

[The Mad Monk]

The point is that being able to have an adoption agency and being able to perform marriage ceremonies are not comparable.

If the state is claiming monopoly rights on both, it very much does make a difference.

[Elok]

Thinking that having a mother and a child is the proper family environment for a child doesn't imply bigotry toward homosexuals. That's like saying that thinking Kinshasa is a bad place to raise a family implies bigotry against the Congolese.

If we're going with the analogy you've chosen here, you want all those Kinshasa babies to be raised by first-world parents, no? The thing is, what if there aren't enough first-world parents volunteering for the job, and some of the ones who do volunteer are unsuitable? In this case, which I believe is the reality WRT homosexuals and adoption, you're simply making the perfect the enemy of the good, at best.

[regexcellent]

I'm not saying it's a smart policy; I'm saying it's not necessarily a bigoted policy. Incidentally with the long waiting lines on adoptions, I'm under the impression that there's actually a much bigger demand than supply. Unless it's just horrible regulation that's making people wait so long, which I could totally believe.

[Elok]

I think you have to be checked six times to make sure you're not a child molester, or recruiting for a brothel or sweatshop or pickpocket ring or what-have-you. I've also heard that there's tremendous demand for cute lil' white babies, not so much for the black ones.

[Hauldren Collider]

I don't have a problem with gay adoption because let's face it, wouldn't it be cool if Neil Patrick Harris were your dad?

[Aeson]

Thinking that having a mother and a child is the proper family environment for a child doesn't imply bigotry toward homosexuals. That's like saying that thinking Kinshasa is a bad place to raise a family implies bigotry against the Congolese.

No. You are confused about what is being compared in your analogy. This is your analogy:

if in Kinshasa then bad environment for raising child.
if homosexual then bad environment for raising child.

Notice it's not comparing homosexual parents to Congolese parents. It's comparing an obvious bad environment for raising a child (Kinshasa) to the environment provided by homosexuals. As Congolese can raise children outside Kinshasa, and non-Congolese could raise children in Kinshasa, it has nothing to do with nationality/ethnicity of the parents.

If you were saying that Congolese couldn't be good parents, that would definitely be bigoted. However you are saying that homosexuals cannot provide a good environment for their children to be raised in, which is also bigoted because it ignores all the evidence to the contrary solely to discriminate against homosexuals.

[Lorizael]

I don't have a problem with gay adoption because let's face it, wouldn't it be cool if Neil Patrick Harris were your dad?

There's an episode of HIMYM that answers this conclusively: no.

[regexcellent]

I don't have a problem with gay adoption because let's face it, wouldn't it be cool if Neil Patrick Harris were your dad?

[The Mad Monk]

Should be one heck of a convention this year.

...and here we go...

Democrats Having Second Thoughts About Charlotte
By George E. Condon Jr.
May 10, 2012 | 1:00 PM
3 Leave a CommentDemocrats who already were queasy about the site of their national convention could be excused after Tuesday's election in North Carolina if they asked, "Tell me again just why we're going to Charlotte this year?" In fact, many Democrats privately are asking exactly that after the state's voters overwhelmingly approved a measure outlawing not just same-sex marriage -- which already was illegal in North Carolina -- but also any form of civil unions. Almost immediately after the vote, more than 20,000 people signed a "move the convention" petition being pushed by a New York group called Gay Marriage USA. And Twitter accounts lit up with hundreds of angry tweets demanding the party pull out of Charlotte.

And it's not as if things were going swimmingly for convention organizers before Tuesday's vote. Fundraising was lagging with the Democrats' decision not to accept money from corporations, making it much more difficult to reach the needed $36.6 million. That led to more pressure on labor unions to pony up. But they would rather spend their money on grassroots efforts and are still miffed that the party decided to go to a "right to work" state and a city with few unionized hotels.


You can add to the mix an unpopular Democratic governor who has decided not to run for another term, likely handing the statehouse to the Republicans. And don't forget a messy sexual harassment scandal that has forced the state Democratic Party's executive director to resign and left the party chairman with no choice but to step down with a new chairman slated to be elected on Saturday.

And, oh yes, there is the fact that President Obama will be accepting his nomination with a speech at the unfortunately named Bank of America Stadium, an occasion that will lead to a run of stories about the $45 billion that the banking powerhouse received in the unpopular TARP bailout. And there will be mentions of the bank's inclusion on the list of mortgage companies where staffers signed foreclosure documents without verifying the information on them.

What's not to love about a Charlotte convention? When the city beat out the other finalists -- Cleveland, Minneapolis and St. Louis -- it used the slogan "Charlotte in 2012: Reaching for Tomorrow." The challenge for Democrats now is to try to forget a pretty messy Today.

http://decoded.nationaljournal.com/2012/05/some-second-thoughts-about-cha.php