Canada’s political reversal is complete

[Tupac Shakur]

Drake has no evidence for it being poorly designed given that it has no operational record to speak of.

Yes, because it's impossible to judge a plane's design before it becomes operational. Prototypes and test flights are also pointless.

[Wezil]

I don't care enough about Canada to know the actual details of their F-35 scandal. I will say that it's not much of a scandal if they're not going to reject it, however, so they should just man up and make the smart call already.

It's going to be tough at the projected price tag. As more nations scale back their orders the price per plane keeps going up.

Iirc, we are looking to buy 65 F-35's to replace the 120 or so F-18's we have left. We are told this is the bare minimum requirement (i.e. any that crash will need to be replaced).

[regexcellent]

The military certainly wants the F-35 and are at the root of this scandal.

Unfortunately for the Conservatives, if they really do think the procurement is important they have just managed to delay the process by their own BS. If they planes really are needed to replace the F-18's in the time frame suggested they will have a hard time doing so now.

They well and truly botched this file.

Not to armchair-general this, but I think the correct move would have been to get one or two squadrons of F-35s and replace the remaining F-18s with F-18E/Fs. Not as capable an airframe, but somewhat more versatile and very proven. It would also keep the whole replacement within budget. With these kinds of buys, though, there's very much a tendency to want to stay the course. Not to mention I suspect Canada wants to keep its fleet of one type, like it did with the CF-5s and the CF-18s.

[Wezil]

There will be considerable political pressure on the government to consider other options. Tech wise I'm not in a position to speak on the relative merits of the various planes since it's something I know little of. Cost will be a large factor though.

[Tupac Shakur]

For Moron Collider's edification...

Joint Strike Fighter: The Latest Hotspot in the U.S. Defense Meltdown

[Hauldren Collider]

Oh, how adorable. Drake made me a nickname. Welcome to middle school, I guess.

[regexcellent]

Australia bought the F-18E/F and appears to be happy with 'em.

Given the recently announced overhaul (literally this month) of the F-35 program in Canada, I suspect the one they'll go to is the F-18E/F. It's a good airplane.

(xpost - @ wezil)

[Hauldren Collider]

At any rate, I have seen the newspaper articles where various retired generals and think tanks deride the f-35. I also remember seeing the same articles for just about every defense program that's ever been enacted, particularly the v-22, the f-22, and the Virginia-class subs. Now all three of those are extremely successful. So I'm taking Drake's "edification" with a grain of salt.

Yes, it could be a widow-making baby murderer of an aircraft, or it could be the most advanced fighter ever built and wildly succesful. Time will tell.

[Wezil]

Australia bought the F-18E/F and appears to be happy with 'em.

Given the recently announced overhaul (literally this month) of the F-35 program in Canada, I suspect the one they'll go to is the F-18E/F. It's a good airplane.

That's the one I hear mentioned. Any idea what the sticker price is on those?

[regexcellent]

Much lower, and there's an electronic attack version. One of the key things about the F-35 is its electronic attack capabilities. The EA-18G variant of the Super Hornet has that.

Price at the moment is $67 million (USD) flyaway or according to Wikipedia.

[Tupac Shakur]

So I'm taking Drake's "edification" with a grain of salt.

You're free to be a ****.

[giblets]

At any rate, I have seen the newspaper articles where various retired generals and think tanks deride the f-35. I also remember seeing the same articles for just about every defense program that's ever been enacted, particularly the v-22, the f-22, and the Virginia-class subs. Now all three of those are extremely successful. So I'm taking Drake's "edification" with a grain of salt.

Yes, it could be a widow-making baby murderer of an aircraft, or it could be the most advanced fighter ever built and wildly succesful. Time will tell.

I thought widow-making and baby killing were part of its intended purpose.

[Hauldren Collider]

I thought widow-making and baby killing were part of its intended purpose.

Good point, I meant widow-making the wrong people

[Hauldren Collider]

A few comments on the video:

1. The guy says that it needs 100 hours on the ground to an hour in flight---no. it needs a large number of man-hours, which is the maintenance time multiplied by the number of people needed to maintain it. A valid criticism but its mission readiness rate should still easily be sufficient.
2. He complains that the plane isn't maneuverable. That's bull****. The thing can pull a 9g turn, which is stretching the limit human pilots can operate in anyway.
3. The F-16 can't do ground support? Oh really? Tell that to the IAF.

[regexcellent]

None of this is particularly important as to whether Canada should buy the plane.

You don't find that many military officers who think it's a bad plane. The issue isn't in quality; it's in price.