Broccoli

[Dinner]

I am a bit confused at why some people say we should only reject part of the law because we would be getting rid of "the good parts" as well. You guys know that Congress can immediately pass "the good parts", right?

That ignores the fact that congress already did pass the good parts so now we're talking about the SCotUS throwing out duly passed laws not because they're unconstitutional but because they're trying to legislate stuff. If something really is unconstitutional, and I doubt any of it really is despite what partisan political actors on the court may say, then they need to invalidate ONLY those parts which directly violate the constitution and not try to dream up excuses to invalidate those duly passed parts which are constitutional.

[giblets]

Why should the Court care about that, ken?

Obviously they shouldn't, it just shows how the collective influence of conservatives is ruining America.

[regexcellent]

No-one would pass such a law? Don't be ridiculous, if the Dems make a clear and strong case for it saving the US vast sums of money while also ensuring full coverage then of course they could pass it, they just need to fight for it and not give in to Republican lies and smears. (****ing death panels, I still can't believe so many Americans were stupid enough to believe that ****.)

Americans hate the idea of single payer because Americans don't like government. It's that simple. "Republican lies and smears" accurately represent American sentiment about the government running our health care.

[Dinner]

What is wrong with the German and Swiss systems? Mandated insurance is used in several OECD countries.

The really funny part is Republicans were all for the mandated insurance system until Obama agreed with them that it was a good idea then suddenly, magically even, they flipped a 180 and claimed it was the devil's work. It's perfectly obvious they're liars who are playing politics while their followers are simply fools & useful idiots.

[Dinner]

Americans hate the idea of single payer because Americans don't like government. It's that simple. "Republican lies and smears" accurately represent American sentiment about the government running our health care.

Factually incorrect. During the health care debate single payer was polling in the low 70's.

[regexcellent]

SOME Republicans were for the mandate. Most never were. But the individual mandate is not the really bad part of the law; that bad part of the law is the pre-existing conditions requirement.

[regexcellent]

Factually incorrect. During the health care debate single payer was polling in the low 70's.

Back this up. You have a very tenuous relationship with facts.

[DinoDoc]

Back this up. You have a very tenuous relationship with facts.

32% Favor Single-Payer Health Care, 57% Oppose

Other article on the subject: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...ingle-payer-h/

[Dinner]

Back this up. You have a very tenuous relationship with facts.

That's hilarious as it was very well documented for anyone who bothered to watch media coverage on the matter when the debate was occurring. Obviously, the exact numbers varied over time so it depends on which month of which year you poll but here are some results.

From 2009: " “59% [of Americans] say the government should provide national health insurance" http://www.healthcare-now.org/anothe...-single-payer/

"Adopt a universal health insurance program where everyone is covered like medicare for all" support was in the upper 60's. http://www.medicareforall.org/pages/...ricans_Support

"63% of Americans polled preferred a universal single payer system" http://abcnews.go.com/sections/livin...020_poll.html#

It honestly looks like YOU are the one who has a tenious relationship with the facts. You almost always throw around bull**** without backing anything up with links. Worse, your statements are frequently obviously wrong like your claims that most Americans wouldn't support single payer. Just own up to the fact that you were wrong.

[Dinner]

Like I said the numbers go up and down and right now they're down but in 2008-2009 the majority was actually for it so the claim that Americans wouldn't support single payer is just factually wrong.

[kentonio]

Interesting fact..

In 1987 78% of Americans agreed that 'government should guarantee medical care to everyone.'

Funny how after years of Republican smearing and public lies about socialized healthcare that figure is now far lower, yet according to wiki..

Responses on these polls largely depend on the wording. For example, people respond more favorably when they are asked if they want a system "like Medicare," less favorably when stated as "socialized."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-payer_health_care

In other words if you avoid the propogandized buzz words and get people to think about the actual issue, they are in favour of universal healthcare. Add in a word like 'socialized' and suddenly no-one wants to touch it. Not that the US falls for political propoganda or anything..

[Dinner]

Gee, how does that square with Reg's claim that:

"Americans hate the idea of single payer because Americans don't like government. It's that simple. "Republican lies and smears" accurately represent American sentiment about the government running our health care."

We're back to the fact Reg is the one with a "tenuous relationship with facts" instead of the rest of us.

[Aeson]

In 1987 78% of Americans agreed that 'government should guarantee medical care to everyone.'

Funny how after years of Republican smearing and public lies about socialized healthcare that figure is now far lower, yet according to wiki..

Obamacare accomplished that on it's own merits. (Though I would support single payer in theory, it's obvious we won't get anything workable with the current D v R political landscape and the Frankenbills that result from it.)

[OzzyKP]

Oh sure, everyone wants zero taxes and massive government handouts. No surprises there. In the real world though, those two things don't go together well. (sadly, politicians try to make them go together as much as possible...)

[Dinner]

I can agree with that. Americans do want to be freeloaders where ever they can, demanding lots of government services but getting upset when ever they're told they have to actually pay for those services.