"How Walter Cronkite Helped Lose the Vietnam War 44 Years Ago"

[Lancer]

That's not the point he was trying to make. I'm from the old school and mostly agree. A lot of the crap that the media revels in is just not our business. What the president does 24/7 isn't necessarily public record imo. I would say the same for most people, with the exception of what they do in public. That's fair game.

Not only that Rah, but also the effect of media on national efforts, such as a war. It almost appears to me that we have the great national effort, then we have its detractors, then we have the 'news' media which is consistently on the side of the war's detractors and fanning the desire to cut and run. All done for a few minutes of spotlight and ratings which seem to be where the media's true loyalties lay.

I say scrap the lot and start again with a bunch of new guys out reporting the news, and that's it. Make the whole media non profit, non entertainment, instead of anti American. Get rid of opinion reported as news and don't tell the country what to think, we're supposed to be able to think for ourselves.

[kentonio]

That's not the point he was trying to make. I'm from the old school and mostly agree. A lot of the crap that the media revels in is just not our business. What the president does 24/7 isn't necessarily public record imo. I would say the same for most people, with the exception of what they do in public. That's fair game.

To be honest I was being a bit snarky there, I also tend to agree that the French model of personal affairs remaining personal is a much better way of doing things, but then again the French don't tend to lecture people about family values in that way. As long as representatives aren't telling people how they should conduct their family affairs, then yes they should be left alone. Of course there is an often very thin line between personal affairs and public ones, and the danger of the old system was that corruption and nepotism can very easily slip by under the excuse of things being 'private'.

[Berzerker]

No of course not. However I think more was involved than the base competition, or "pissing contest" as you say. I believe the pissing contest was the result of the differences between democracy and communism, or are you suggesting that as far as each could pee is the only difference?

It was a war between people tired of foreign rulers and people tired of resisting foreign rulers

the former kicked the French, US and China out and put an end to the Khmer Rouge while the latter wallowed in corruption and apathy. I dont think they're giving up because they lost a major battle...

[Lancer]

I really don't know enough about it Berzerker, don't want to go too far down the road towards suggesting the Vietnam war could have been won, but also don't want to say it must have been lost. This is after all just a discussion about history and the interpretation of an article which pertains to the actions of a famous reporter. I am definitely not suggesting that JFK and Johnson should have gotten us into the war, quite the opposite. However we were in it, the nation committed. If after the defeat of the communist Tet offensive, in the lull that must follow such a "massive defeat", something could have been done to establish a true democracy, the US had tremendous pull over the ARVN forces, a few words to the right generals that now was the time for freedom, and a quick transition to a South Vietnam able to vote for their leadership... Meanwhile the construction of schools, hospitals, infrastructure... Perhaps not much chance, particularly with an influential and respected citizen as Cronkite giving up so publicly. Certainly didn't help.

Here's what the article said on the matter...

"Years after the Tet Offensive, shortly after the Vietnam War was over, Washington Post reporter Peter Braestrup published a two-volume work called "The Big Story" that suggested media reporting on the Tet Offensive was overly negative and contributed to a psychological defeat of American policy makers and the American public. Col. Harry Summers, who wrote a 2001 review of the book, calls it the best book on Tet and the media's treatment of it.

Steven Hayward reports the Viet Cong and the North Vietnamese suffered massive losses as a result of Tet. But Cronkite and the media firestorm that followed, as well as the burgeoning costs of the war, precluded any strategy of capitalizing on what was a clear communist defeat. Tet might well have been a military victory for America and her allies, but partly thanks to Cronkite and the liberal media, it proved to be a psychological defeat."

[Berzerker]

What Tet did was educate Americans about the prospects of a war we were supposedly winning, Cronkite just reported that harsh reality.

Its like the Taliban now, they aint going away - we are.

[Lancer]

Ya valid point Berzerker. Best we stay out of the whole mess, fix our own country. Don't know what to do about Iran getting nukes though, definitely believe that would be bad for children, flowers and other living things. Solutions though, hard to come by. Makes me miss the cold war of all things, simpler then.