Fair is fair . . . Georgia Democrats propose an anti-vasectomy bill

[regexcellent]

This one, but the Virgina house also has a "life begins at conception" bill pending which despite the contrary is aimed at making birth control, morning after pills, and, yes, abortion illegal even though the SCotUS has said it's illegal to make abortion illegal. Take about wasteful big government by the GOP.

You generally take a birth control pill before you conceive; it doesn't really work after.

[regexcellent]

There might be a logical thought process involving the assumption that abortion is murder that leads to bombing abortion clinics. The Nazis might have entertained a logical thought process based on assumptions at some point. So what?

So a lot of people believe abortion is murder and there is a legitimate reason to do so, religious or otherwise. I'm not going to get into that argument because it's not germaine. This just means it's not about women's rights to them.

[DaShi]

Rather, nobody is willing to acknowledge that there is a belief which exists out there that many people hold that abortion = murder and all this talk of women's rights and whatever goes out the window if you think that's true. It is not a hard concept! This is just a bunch of left-wingers refusing to believe that their political opponents have any kind of legitimacy and willfully ignoring any argument or evidence to that effect.

No, that's you grasping at anything to survive. You did not make strong arguments in this thread.

[giblets]

So a lot of people believe abortion is murder and there is a legitimate reason to do so, religious or otherwise. I'm not going to get into that argument because it's not germaine. This just means it's not about women's rights to them.

Regardless of whether they care about women's rights, the legislation is still paternalistic towards women.

[regexcellent]

That's coming from the most likely contender for "least insightful poster on this site." 90% of what you post is either stating outright Zevico is dumb or HC is dumb and the remaining 10% is mostly unfunny jokes. I would like to point out that for one, Zevico typically writes very insightful posts. I don't always agree with them but he always has something interesting to say. You never do. You do things like this, declaring yourself the winner.

xpost

[DaShi]

I merely describing the situation you're in. I also was not criticizing you, I was simply pointing out that you did not make strong arguments for your case. This is supported by your current histrionics.

Now on a personal level, since you decided to go there, I've already stated that you aren't worth arguing with. You've yet to post anything insightful on this site. At this moment, your opinion has no value to me.

[Elok]

When the "other side of the debate" advocates paternalistic legislation that treats women like children then I am not going to pretend both sides are equally valid. Women are, in fact, not retarded and are not going to be shocked when a fetus has a "vaguely human shape". Republicans want the government to establish a policy that assumes women are not capable of making a big decision on their own and need to be helped along against their will. And, of course, pro-lifers somehow can't accept that they've lost and can't make abortion illegal so they'll keep trying to put in bull**** government regulations that invade the privacy of Americans in an attempt to make it effectively illegal.

Well, we can do more terrorism, if you like. Those are the only options SCOTUS left us. Take your pick.

[giblets]

Well, we can do more terrorism, if you like. Those are the only options SCOTUS left us. Take your pick.

Yeah, maybe you should be more open about your violent intentions.

[DaShi]

There are only two options: paternalism or terrorism? Seriously?

[Dinner]

I'm not trying to argue that the Republicans are right. I'm just trying to argue that they aren't anti-female Nazis

If they weren't then they wouldn't be trying to force things stuffed up women's vaginas, would they. Face it, anti-female is exactly what they are and they want to brow beat and intimidate women into doing what THEY want women to do. I call that anti-female.

[Elok]

Bull****. The whole forcing things into women's vaginas should have been your que that you're wrong.

About what, that you've outdone Kidicious at the mystic art of the hissy-fit? I guess you could be neck and neck. You could probably improve your game with a little extra Godwin-Fu and some excessive use of caps lock/the smiley. Work on it.

[DaShi]

To be fair, Elok, you clearly haven't entered this thread with the intention of have a serious discussion...again.

[Dinner]

Actually, I think I like Reg. I think I might know him from a forum I used to post at but got banned on. Hell, I am an awful uncivilized **** when it comes to debating but I like to think I'm a passionate proponent for my point of view. In any event it is great to get drunk and argue with people on the internet.

[PLATO]

Abortion is an incredibly hard topic if you really look at it seriously. The point that everyone should be looking at is: What is governments role in abortion?

To me, government should have no role in deciding what one person does to their own body. The question that abortion raises is when does a fetus become a person? To simply say that life begins at conception is to state the obvious...from a purely biological point of view, there is no doubt that a fetus is alive. But...is it a person? To say that it is not a person until the moment of birth is equally miopic. A fetus is not fundamentally different 5 minutes before it is born. Where is the point that something changes from being a mass of living cells and becomes a person?

I don't think anyone can exactly measure that. However, that is the point that the government becomes obligated to protect the rights of that person.

This is the real debate and it is one that cannot be settled until science provides us a reliable answer. Until then, it is a matter that must be decided by each persons own thoughts or moral code. The way for people to express the responsibilities of government is through their elected representatives. The responsibility for the people is to continue to express their thoughts and feelings to and through these representatives.

This appears to be the process that we continually see being played out. It is unlikely that anything will change until the scientific answer is known. Until then, people will continue to call those that disagree with them "morons" and will continue to take extremists viewpoints to try and emphasize their way of thinking.

Democracy sometimes sucks, but it is the best deal going.

[giblets]

Science may help in identifying when personhood begins, but I don't think a definition of personhood is agreed on. The people claiming "life begins at conception" apparently believe that any organism with human DNA is a person even if it is just a couple of cells. To them the science is already settled.