Fair is fair . . . Georgia Democrats propose an anti-vasectomy bill

[Jon Miller]

No it doesn't. Both HC and Jon have shown a complete lack of compassion towards living women who choose to have abortions.

I would not lie t a murderer to help them ease their conscience and feel less guilty.

JM

[The Mad Monk]

I support this anti-vasectomy bill, and I hope every Republican will join me in this.

[Lorizael]

I could actually be OK with that, depending on what was requiredf ro a parenting certificate.

JM

That's the rub, of course.

[Jon Miller]

First of all, that's not true. A majority of Americans believe abortion should be legal in limited circumstances. Very few Americans think it should be as available as it is now (see Gallup polling on this). Support for abortion is also steadily dropping.

Moreover, even if that were true, it doesn't change the fact that the mechanism by which it is legal is unsatisfactory and leaves no legal recourse for the people who don't like the decision.

EDIT: I should qualify "very few." It's somewhere in the range of, I believe, 20% or so. That's not really very few but whatever.

20% is very few to support a political law in the US today. Very very few.

The reason why the law hasn't changed is because of roeVwade and the fact that the 20% always present every vote in terms so as to get a majority.

Any restriction on abortion in the US is presented as so women who were raped will be forced to die in childbirth.

It is atrocious.

JM

[MRT144]

It means they were lied to.

The same lie in this thread (the baby is not a person), but a lot more effort is put into convincing african-americans. And others whose children would be undesirable.

JM

What is the lie that is being told?

[Jon Miller]

"the baby is not a person" and "it would be better if you get an abortion"

JM

[MRT144]

the baby is not a person

JM

A baby is a person. A fetus, depending on timeline is debatable. Even if someone thinks a fetus is a person, they could still go forward with an abortion.

Are you really saying that black people would never get abortions if they thought fetuses are full fledged persons? Should I file your opinion under, ignorant, patronizing, or stupid?

[Elok]

That some harm is enabled by enabling greater liberty doesn't mean we should suck the liberty baby out of the uterus with a tube.

Perhaps not, but it does make the issue more complex on your side too.

[Jon Miller]

I think that a whole lot less black people would get abortions if they thought they were killing their babies.

Yes.

If you think that I am ignorant, patronizing, or stupid... what do you think about black culture?

JM

[MRT144]

I think that a whole lot less black people would get abortions if they thought they were killing their babies.

Yes.

If you think that I am ignorant, patronizing, or stupid... what do you think about black culture?

JM

Are you claiming they believe a lie to assail yourself of holding a large portion entire race of people as murderers? So if we extrapolate this, you think murder is less bad if someone does it because they were lied to?

As I said, I think getting an abortion is a calculated decision. A decision in which the personhood of the fetus is not one of the primary concerns.

[Jon Miller]

I think better of humanity than you do.

JM

[MRT144]

I think better of humanity than you do.

JM

At your own and other people's peril.

[Dinner]

Here's some fact: Support for abortion rights has remained pretty much constant (with in a very narrow band) since 1975. 51% believe it should be legal under certain circumstances, 26% believe it should be legal under all circumstances, and only 20% believe it should be illegal. I agree with Jon Miller, 20% really is a very small number.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx

[Dinner]

This is not true. In fact its the opposite of true. They most certainly were mandating a transvaginal ultrasound which was why the gov felt the need to come out and say he could not support this.

Ffs, I even quoted the governor directly to reinforce the point..

HC is completely out to lunch about this and three pages later he's still trying to pretend they weren't trying to force women to get a transvaginal ultrasound (vaginal penetration ultrasound) even after he's been show links and quotes multiple times.

Does anyone else find that hilarious after his claims of closely watching Virgina politics and claiming I was wrong about the vaginal penetration mandate? Come on, HC, just man up and admit you were wrong already.

[Jon Miller]

So is 26%.

JM