Evangelical Protestants and the GOP

[kentonio]

Christians spent the first 700 years of Christianity arguing about the nature of Christ. Read about the Ecumenical Councils, Nestorianism, Arianism etc

I skimmed some of it a few years back. It reminded me too much about geeks arguing over whether superman or spiderman would win in a fight.

[Kidlicious]

I skimmed some of it a few years back. It reminded me too much about geeks arguing over whether superman or spiderman would win in a fight.

You don't know anything.

[Aeson]

Yah, it's much more like Batman vs Catwoman

[Kidlicious]

Except that he didn't have a son did he, it was actually supposed to just be another manifestation of him really. How could a supernatural creator have a son, that makes no sense. Who was the mother? The holy spirit? If it was god himself, then what does getting crucified mean to a supernatural creator figure? He make the world but getting nailed to a peice of wood was some great endurance?

Doesn't it seem at all weird that Jesus was so insistent about people worshiping him rather than just worshiping god? That's standing out for me a lot recently, the more I read about other 'prophets' oddly enough..

Your problem is that you think you should know everything, like there is something special about you. There's not. You're just a human being. And human beings don't know evertying. They weren't created like that. If you learn that you will know something. Until you learn that you don't know anything you will know nothing.

[kentonio]

Your problem is that you think you should know everything, like there is something special about you. There's not. You're just a human being. And human beings don't know evertying. They weren't created like that. If you learn that you will know something. Until you learn that you don't know anything you will know nothing.

We weren't created, we're a chance result of millions of years of evolutionary process. There is no huge secret to learn, other than if we all treat each other like decent people then we'll all be better off as a result.

[Kidlicious]

We weren't created, we're a chance result of millions of years of evolutionary process. There is no huge secret to learn, other than if we all treat each other like decent people then we'll all be better off as a result.

And you know this?

[Elok]

Except that he didn't have a son did he, it was actually supposed to just be another manifestation of him really. How could a supernatural creator have a son, that makes no sense. Who was the mother? The holy spirit?

What does it mean for any entity to have a child? It creates another being of the same type as itself. Plenty of organisms reproduce without sex, so there's really no reason why that rule should apply to God--especially given that Mary is generally held to have done much the same thing. Christ is a separate, fully divine being, not a simple creation or manifestation; hence "Son of God." Why Son of God rather than Child of God? Well, why is God "Lord" and "He?" The deity generally identifies Himself as male.

(I wouldn't even try to make sense of the Trinity if I were you; the whole point is that it's unfathomable)

If it was god himself, then what does getting crucified mean to a supernatural creator figure? He make the world but getting nailed to a peice of wood was some great endurance?

While death doesn't mean much to an immortal, the pain and shame of crucifixion remain significant. The creator of the universe became fully human, identifying himself totally with the fallen part of His creation, and consented to undergo one of the most degrading experiences the ancient world could inflict on a man. What other significant sacrifice could an omnipotent being make, other than surrendering the privileges of His own power and taking pain like a lesser being for a time?

[Imran Siddiqui]

It makes a big difference when you say that they believe in the same god. How can they believe in the same god and reject christ. They believe in being righteous and we believe in Christ.

Easy, they believe in one (or maybe two) parts of the Trinity: God the Father and God the Holy Spirit. They don't believe in Jesus Christ, God the Son. Obviously that makes for a large difference.

The problem with Santorum's strategy is that regardless of what their clergy espouse most American Roman Catholics come closer to sharing their political philosophy with "mainline Protestants" than Fundies/Evangelical.

Most American Roman Catholic clergy actually share political philosophy with mainline Protestants too in the realm of caring for the poor and destitute (they were for National Health Care for one), just not on issues of abortion or birth control (in the later, they are odds with fundies as well - as I hear fundies bashing Catholics for their views on that).

[Imran Siddiqui]

Oh, and all the whole "how could God have a son, become man, etc, etc" thing - What Elok said.

[Kidlicious]

Easy, they believe in one (or maybe two) parts of the Trinity: God the Father and God the Holy Spirit. They don't believe in Jesus Christ, God the Son. Obviously that makes for a large difference.

I see a problem that they reject Christ and accept the Father, since they are one. Rejecting one is rejecting the other. I wonder if any Jews believe that someone who rejects the Messiah can be rewarded.

[Imran Siddiqui]

They are one, but also three. The Son is begotten by the Father, but the Son doesn't appear in the story until the Father makes Jesus's presence known in the womb of Mary.

[Kidlicious]

What about the prophesy about him? What about the fact that the Bible says that he was there in the beginning?

Really that's not important. What I mean is that they are the same truth. That's what Jesus meant by "the Father and Son are one." So if they are the same truth, then if you reject one you reject the other.

[kentonio]

What does it mean for any entity to have a child? It creates another being of the same type as itself. Plenty of organisms reproduce without sex, so there's really no reason why that rule should apply to God--especially given that Mary is generally held to have done much the same thing.

'Generally held' by the same person who wants everyone to worship him. Detecting a pattern here?

Christ is a separate, fully divine being, not a simple creation or manifestation; hence "Son of God." Why Son of God rather than Child of God? Well, why is God "Lord" and "He?" The deity generally identifies Himself as male.

So Christianity is polytheism?

(I wouldn't even try to make sense of the Trinity if I were you; the whole point is that it's unfathomable)

Unfathomable = nonsensical? When did this trinity stuff start anyway, is it genuine Jesus times or was it make up later by theologians?

While death doesn't mean much to an immortal, the pain and shame of crucifixion remain significant. The creator of the universe became fully human, identifying himself totally with the fallen part of His creation, and consented to undergo one of the most degrading experiences the ancient world could inflict on a man. What other significant sacrifice could an omnipotent being make, other than surrendering the privileges of His own power and taking pain like a lesser being for a time?

Except he didn't really, did he? If he'd wanted to identify fully with his creations then he wouldn't have granted himself any supernatural powers or anything else that allowed him to walk around proclaiming himself the son of god. Does that really sound particularly humble to you? Then a few hours nailed to a cross is supposed to be somehow significant to an all powerful, omnipresent being who has apparently existed for eternity? Come on..

[Imran Siddiqui]

What about the prophesy about him? What about the fact that the Bible says that he was there in the beginning?

A) The Jews, obviously, believe those prophesies don't apply to Jesus, but to a coming Messiah who will physically rule over the world.
B) The Jews don't accept the Gospel According to John.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Unfathomable = nonsensical? When did this trinity stuff start anyway, is it genuine Jesus times or was it make up later by theologians?

The Jewish faith has had notions of God having different manifestations, but all being one God. The Trinity is most definitely referred to by the Gospels, though not explicitly spelled out as "The Trinity".

Then a few hours nailed to a cross is supposed to be somehow significant to an all powerful, omnipresent being who has apparently existed for eternity? Come on..

To debase yourself to such a degrading position when you easily could escape those bonds is most definitely significant and humble.