Mossad terrorists keep killing civilians.

[regexcellent]

not carried out by iran, but by some angry crowds, although possibly with government approval.

It's pretty clear that the angry crowds were totally orchestrated by the government of Iran in both cases. See Reza Kahlini's book A Time to Betray. It's very informative on the matter. Kahlini was a member of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard and knows this firsthand.

How true. Only the United States has actually destroyed two cities with nuclear weapons.

And used chemical weapons against Viet Nam.

And experimented on its own civilians.

And subverted a democratic government in Iran.

First of all, holy crap. I can't believe you brought the "omg only USA has nuked people" horse out of the stable.

Right, while Iran operates terrorist puppet states in Gaza and southern Lebanon, funds people who send their kids into Israel to blow themselves up, stones women to death for the crime of having been raped, marched children across Iraqi minefields...really I could do this forever. This is the standard-fair leftist "we are the bad guys" schtick that everyone makes fun of. I hope it's a troll, I really do.

[dannubis]

Right, while Iran operates terrorist puppet states in Gaza and southern Lebanon, funds people who send their kids into Israel to blow themselves up, stones women to death for the crime of having been raped, marched children across Iraqi minefields...really I could do this forever. This is the standard-fair leftist "we are the bad guys" schtick that everyone makes fun of. I hope it's a troll, I really do.

Self criticism

[Lorizael]

A whole lot of people disagree with you on this point. I don't see much justification for your side of the issue.

Sure, if we magically changed the hearts and minds of everyone in Iran so that it was a nice pro-Western liberal democracy then Iran's nukes would be no more consequential than the UK's or France's. But that option isn't on the table. Assassinating an Iranian nuclear scientist apparently is.

Yes, magically changing the hearts and minds isn't on the table. Doing it by mundane methods, on the other hand...

[rah]

It's official, the US has denied any involvement.

[Dr Strangelove]

It's official, the US has denied any involvement.

Right. Nothing to see here folks, move along, move along.

[DinoDoc]

rubbish. iran tried to win a war which it did not start. invading your enemy's territory has always been considered a good way to win a war.

Given the fact that in 1979 Iran was pushing the Kurdish and Shiite populations in Iraq to revolt and topple Saddam, Iranian operatives were trying to assassinate senior Iraqi officials, and border clashes were also becoming increasingly frequent by April 1980, largely at Iran's instigation it's a little much to claim that Iran did not have a hand in the start of the war between it and Iraq.

[DinoDoc]

It's official, the US has denied any involvement.

I totally believe that Obama wouldn't have the stones to order this given the tepid response during the so-called Twitter Revolution in 2009.

[regexcellent]

Self criticism

Hey, I almost forgot to mention: we never murdered 10 million people in the Congo.

[C0ckney]

Given the fact that in 1979 Iran was pushing the Kurdish and Shiite populations in Iraq to revolt and topple Saddam, Iranian operatives were trying to assassinate senior Iraqi officials, and border clashes were also becoming increasingly frequent by April 1980, largely at Iran's instigation it's a little much to claim that Iran did not have a hand in the start of the war between it and Iraq.

and iraq was encouraging the balulchis and arabs in khurzestan to revolt going back many years. i'm not sure what you're referring to with the officials (tariq aziz? if so, that was a mere pretext). certainly there were numerous provocations by both sides, especially over the waterways issue, but it was iraq who attacked.

[Hauldren Collider]

Yes, magically changing the hearts and minds isn't on the table. Doing it by mundane methods, on the other hand...

Their government (and most of their people) have hated us since the 70s. Do you think that the Iranians will become hippie peaceniks following our ceasing of aggression (already quite a longshot!) before acquiring nukes and attempting some sort of monomaniacal goal? This is insane.

[Hauldren Collider]

Hey, I almost forgot to mention: we never murdered 10 million people in the Congo.

I suppose it's easier to understand why Europeans would have this "blame the good guys first" thing when they have such a rotten history of genocide and enslavement of other cultures. We stopped that nonsense by the 1870s.

[rah]

I totally believe that Obama wouldn't have the stones to order this given the tepid response during the so-called Twitter Revolution in 2009.

As much as I am not an OBAMA fan, I have to disagree here. Short of secretly assassinating government leaders any response would have been public and tied back to him so there would have been possible political fallout for him to have acted.
Ordering a secret hit on a scientist would have no political fallout so it would be safe to do. I think there were waiting for some public opinion before stating we had no role. If there had been really positive outcry about this, he could have hinted we might have had something to do with it.

He did order an incursion into an ally's territory to capture Osama which could have gone badly so he has shown some balls previously. (of course the possible upsides made it worth any risk.

[MRT144]

As much as I am not an OBAMA fan, I have to disagree here. Short of secretly assassinating government leaders any response would have been public and tied back to him so there would have been possible political fallout for him to have acted.
Ordering a secret hit on a scientist would have no political fallout so it would be safe to do. I think there were waiting for some public opinion before stating we had no role. If there had been really positive outcry about this, he could have hinted we might have had something to do with it.

He did order an incursion into an ally's territory to capture Osama which could have gone badly so he has shown some balls previously. (of course the possible upsides made it worth any risk.

"Ask Osama Bin Laden if I'm an appeaser."

[rah]

I suppose it's easier to understand why Europeans would have this "blame the good guys first" thing when they have such a rotten history of genocide and enslavement of other cultures. We stopped that nonsense by the 1870s.

What history books did you learn from?
Can we say Native Americans.

[C0ckney]

I suppose it's easier to understand why Europeans would have this "blame the good guys first" thing when they have such a rotten history of genocide and enslavement of other cultures. We stopped that nonsense by the 1870s.