The Alamo defenders were mercenaries for slavery and imperialism

[Dr Strangelove]

It depends on how you want to see it. Santa Anna overturned the 1824 Constitution and essentially wrote his own to give the central government more authority. Mexico in the years following gaining independence had seen coup after coup, it never had a chance to establish a functioning democracy. Santa Anna sort of formalized this de facto state of affairs by writing his own constitution concentrating power in the central government and abolishing the Mexican Congress. Texas wasn't the only state to attempt secession, 10 others did as well. Santa Anna gathered his army then began making a sweep of the rebellious states. After each victory he allowed his troops to have their way with the locals for 2 days to punish the rebels.

[kentonio]

So it is better to hew to one side of the black vs. white divide than to attempt a nuanced view at history? That seems to be to be submitting to the beast because "you have to". I imagine a better way.

That would be lovely, but its amazing how often peoples 'balanced' view of history ends up painting over the horrid stuff in favour of some unrealistic, glamourized version that doesn't include things like millions of blacks being tortured, raped and murdered while being treated as cattle.

[Egbert]

Texas wasn't a part of America when it revolted from Mexico to preserve slavery. I also don't have much of a problem with transparent imperial landgrabs like the Mexican-American War, so I'm not really blaming America for anything there. Polk

Transparent imperialist landgrabs were all the rage at the time, quite fashionable really. Them there Yankee imperialists were just copying everyone else.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Plato thread winner by Dinner default.

Indeed. That is the status quo historical concensus and has been since around the period in question.

[Imran Siddiqui]

That would be lovely, but its amazing how often peoples 'balanced' view of history ends up painting over the horrid stuff in favour of some unrealistic, glamourized version that doesn't include things like millions of blacks being tortured, raped and murdered while being treated as cattle.

So why even try?

[kentonio]

Why even try what? When you see the same apologist train wreck coming, are you supposed to just ignore it?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Try to actually reach out and attempt a balanced view of history, and come out against people of both extremes, realizing that some will take your attempts to actually think things through for their own agendas but that's life.

[kentonio]

Try to actually reach out and attempt a balanced view of history, and come out against people of both extremes, realizing that some will take your attempts to actually think things through for their own agendas but that's life.

On most things I'm all in favour of compromise and seeking balance, but when theres a clear agenda to paint over the wrongs of the past, then no, that requires people to stand up and fight against it. It's not about the details of a historical event, its about bigotry by the back door. The 'Lost Cause' brigade brought about millions of kids being wrongly educated which almost certainly prolonged the civil rights movement by several decades. Maybe one day it won't matter any more in any practical way, but until racism is properly stamped out, it still does.

[DaShi]

I think ignoring the significant role of slavery in Texas history is not taking a balanced approach to history.

[Tupac Shakur]

I think ignoring the significant role of slavery in Texas history is not taking a balanced approach to history.

QFT

[Arrian]

Albie

Wow, I never expected to post that. The neoConfederate (and yeah, I'm aware that this is about Texan independence, not the Civil War) claptrap in this thread is sad, but unsurprising. I knew as soon as I read the OP that Sloww would show up and rant incoherently and he didn't disappoint. I was disappointed at some of the others, though.

Imran, buddy, seriously: it was a slave-holders landgrab. This was well-understood at the time. Biting off pieces of Mexico was the favored passtime of Slave Power back then.

-Arrian

[Pax]

This is a thread that needs BKs special touch.

[Tupac Shakur]

Imran is doing yeoman's work attempting to fill the BK void.

[SlowwHand]

Albie

Wow, I never expected to post that. The neoConfederate (and yeah, I'm aware that this is about Texan independence, not the Civil War) claptrap in this thread is sad, but unsurprising. I knew as soon as I read the OP that Sloww would show up and rant incoherently and he didn't disappoint. I was disappointed at some of the others, though.

Imran, buddy, seriously: it was a slave-holders landgrab. This was well-understood at the time. Biting off pieces of Mexico was the favored passtime of Slave Power back then.

-Arrian

I'm not going to apologize for something so long ago that none of mine had anything to do with anyway. Call it ranting if you feel like it.

[Al B. Sure!]

Why do you keep saying ****ing apologizing. No one's saying to apologize for ****. We're saying to recognize the freaking facts.