Reason for optimism in Tunisia

[DaShi]

Please ban this Ben-DL.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

The army of Muhammad will return!” Khaybar was a Jewish oasis in Arabia conquered by the Muslims in the seventh century.

Jews were forced to pay tribute and later expelled.

And this was just 1200 years ago, which is practically yesterday in political terms.

[Zevico]

And this was just 1200 years ago, which is practically yesterday in political terms.

You jest, but what do you think at least some Tunisians had in mind when they expelled Jews post-48'?

[dannubis]

Ah well, a lot of expelling was done those days. Sometimes a majority turned on a minority. Sometimes a bunch of imigrants turned on original inhabitants. Who is to say who was right ?

[Elok]

Could we get another nutjob in here ranting about Australian politicians, dragging up things they said about the aboriginals while they were drunk and in college? You know, for balance.

[C0ckney]

what about that af ra kam fellow, he should certainly be fighting the aboriginals' corner.

[C0ckney]

aw shucks, da shi.

will be interesting to watch how it turns out... views from a Tunisian journo...

.........

all in all... it's wait and see mode...

indeed. it's impossible to predict exactly what will happen, but the signs we've seen so far have been encouraging. now it depends on whether the politicians live up to their word. tunisia already is fairly advanced in terms of women's rights and personal freedom. the islamist party that won the election did so with the promise of respecting these rights and freedoms. it seems unlikely that they would go back on this and alienate a significant part of the electorate.

generally we shouldn't be alarmed when we hear the word 'islam' in terms of politics. it's part of the culture and social fabric of middle eastern and north african countries and it's hardly surprising that it affects the politics in them. how to integrate democracy with the culture of these countries is going to be one of the great challenges of the coming years for islamic societies. i think that some aspects of the culture will have to change and that some features of western democracy will not be implemented in full for a long time, perhaps never. it will certainly be a long process. i do think, however, that a model fostered from within will be more successful, and more responsive to people's wants and aspirations, than one imposed from without by the west.

zervico, once again you, or rather those whose opinions you repeat, seek to demonise based on decades old material. stuff which is tangential at best and irrelevant at worst and insinuations. to give just one example.

This month, police used tear gas to disperse thousands protesting an animated film, Persepolis, they deemed blasphemous. The film shows an Iranian girl’s coming of age story after the 1979 Islamic Revolution, and angered Islamists for its representation of God and its protagonist’s supposedly un-Islamic lifestyle.

The house of the owner of the station that broadcast the film was later firebombed. It was unclear whether the assailants belonged to Tenaha or even more extreme Salami Islamist groups.

in fact, ennahda condemned this, but it doesn't stop the jpost from linking them to it.

you can't say that you support democracy and at the same time, take the first opportunity to demonise the democratic choice of people, and with such weak evidence at that.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

You jest, but what do you think at least some Tunisians had in mind when they expelled Jews post-48'?

Source for the expulsions, please.

[Zevico]

Source for the expulsions, please.

Tunisia was the only Arab country to come under direct German occupation during World War II. According to Robert Satloff, “From November 1942 to May 1943, the Germans and their local collaborators implemented a forced-labor regime, confiscations of property, hostage-taking, mass extortion, deportations, and executions. They required thousands of Jews in the countryside to wear the Star of David, and they created special Judenrat-like committees of Jewish leaders to implement Nazi policies under threat of imprisonment or death.”1a

After Tunisia gained independence in 1956, a series of anti-Jewish government decrees were promulgated. In 1958, Tunisia's Jewish Community Council was abolished by the government and ancient synagogues, cemeteries and Jewish quarters were destroyed for “urban renewal.”2

The increasingly unstable situation caused more than 40,000 Tunisian Jews to immigrate to Israel. By 1967, the country's Jewish population had shrunk to 20,000.

During the Six-Day War, Jews were attacked by rioting Arab mobs, and synagogues and shops were burned. The government denounced the violence, and President Habib Bourguiba apologized to the Chief Rabbi. The government appealed to the Jewish population to stay, but did not bar them from leaving. Subsequently, 7,000 Jews immigrated to France.

In 1982, there were attacks on Jews in the towns of Zarzis and Ben Guardane. According to the State Department, the Tunisian government “acted decisively to provide protection to the Jewish community.”3

In 1985, a Tunisian guard opened fire on worshipers in a synagogue in Djerba, killing five people, four of them Jewish. Since then, the government has sought to prevent further tragedy by giving Tunisian Jews heavy protection when necessary. Following Israel's October 1, 1985, bombing of the PLO headquarters near Tunis, “the government took extraordinary measures to protect the Jewish community.”4 After the Temple Mount tragedy in October 1990, “the government placed heavy security around the main synagogue in Tunis.”5

Djerba has one Jewish kindergarten. There are also six Jewish primary schools (three located in Tunis, two in Djerba and one in the coastal city of Zarzis) and four secondary schools (two in Tunis and two in Djerba). There are also yeshivot in Tunis and Djerba. The community has two homes for the aged. The country has several kosher restaurants and five officiating rabbis: the chief rabbi in Tunis, a rabbi in Djerba, and four others in Tunis. The majority of the Jewish community observes the laws of kashrut.

“Many tourists come to visit Djerba's El Ghirba Synagogue in the village of Hara Sghira. Although the present structure was built in 1929, it is believed there has been a continuously used synagogue on the site for the past 1,900 years. Tunisian Jews have many unique and colorful rituals and celebrations, including the annual pilgrimage to Djerba which takes place during Lag BaOmer. The Bardo Museum in Tunis contains an exhibit dealing exclusively with Jewish ritual objects.”6

Today, the 1,000 Jews comprise the country's largest indigenous religious minority. “The government promoted anti-bias and tolerance education through a series of lectures regarding religious tolerance. Jewish community leaders reported that the government actively protected synagogues, particularly during Jewish holidays, paid the salary of the grand rabbi, and partially subsidized restoration and maintenance costs for some synagogues.”7

On April 11, 2002, a natural gas truck exploded at the outer wall of the Ghriba synagogue on the resort island of Djerba. Tunisian officials at first said the truck accidentally struck the wall of the synagogue, but a group linked to Osama bin Laden's al-Qaeda network claimed responsibility for carrying out what was actually a terrorist attack on the oldest synagogue in Africa. The explosion killed 17 people, including 11 German tourists.8

During the political unrest and protests, that began in December 2010 and continued through the early months of 2011, and resulted in the ousting of longtime Tunisian President Zine El Abidine Ben Ali in January 2011, demonstrations were also held outside of one of Tunisia's ancient synagogues. In videos of the gather, protesters were filmed chanting, “Iqbal al Yahud!” (translation: “Death to the Jews!”).9

Source: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...tunisjews.html

Not outright expulsions, then, so much as regular anti-Jewish violence (not to mention destruction of property, sometimes state-sponsored) leading to mass emigration.

[Uncle Sparky]

I stick to NAFAL these days.

Try cotton, you'll stick less.

[Asher]

I think Zevico is hilarious. I only hope he realizes what a joke he is.

[Hauldren Collider]

Oh yes, because you've really made your case well in all the foreign policy threads.

At the very least, Zevico's arguments are more cogent than "lol america is fukked the world hates you come to canada and live like a king".

[Berzerker]

a religious fanatic is someone who thinks "God" (made in the religious fanatics' image of course) has instructed them to make the rest of us behave

and thats the irony of organized religion, it aint about overcoming sin, its about banning temptation

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Not outright expulsions, then

Exactly. Thanks for playing.

[Asher]

Oh yes, because you've really made your case well in all the foreign policy threads.

At the very least, Zevico's arguments are more cogent than "lol america is fukked the world hates you come to canada and live like a king".

My arguments are far more cogent than your juvenile summary. The fact that you refuse to even think about the issue critically is the culprit here. Zevico has the same issue.

Many Americans are completely incapable of understanding why the country is not well liked internationally. You have been brainwashed since you were a child about how great your nation is. It's amusing to outsiders, it's normal to you. The Pledge of Allegiance, for example, is ridiculously ****ing creepy to any reasonable person.

Americans have a mental image of their nation that is disconnected from reality. It's where the unfounded arrogance comes from, which is where the international ignorance comes from. Add on to the fact that America fancies itself the world's moral authority (despite practicing the death penalty, among other things) and is the world's police force and tries to impose its will on sovereign nations with great regularity -- and people ****ing hate you.

It's not hard to understand to anyone open to original thought. For Americans, though -- they're more likely to reduce this argument to "lol america is fukked the world hates you" so they can then dismiss it without having to actually think about it. You guys can't man up and face the realities of our global world. Your thought is too insular, your people too ignorant, your attitude too arrogant.