Plane crash in Russia kills 36, including entire roster of KHL team-Russia's national hockey league

[Serb]

Every time I take a plane in Russia I am a little bit afraid.
These things happen way too often there. :/

Really? When was the last such crush in Russia (aside last year's crush of the Polish president wich was a Polish pilots fault)? Five years ago or something? And before that I don't know another five or eight years? That's called often?

[notyoueither]

[Combat Ingrid]

Really? When was the last such crush in Russia (aside last year's crush of the Polish president wich was a Polish pilots fault)? Five years ago or something? And before that I don't know another five or eight years? That's called often?

http://aviation-safety.net/database/dblist.php?Year=2011

It seems this was the third crash with 10+ fatalities in Russia so far this year.

[Az]

Actually, A Tupolev crashed in June in Karelia, killing some 40 people, I think.

[Combat Ingrid]

Yes, it's included in that list.
Details: http://aviation-safety.net/database/...?id=20110620-0

[Serb]

Thanks for statistics.

http://aviation-safety.net/database/....php?Year=2011

It seems this was the third crash with 10+ fatalities in Russia so far this year.

Third crush was a cargo plane. I honestly didn't know about the June crash in Karelia. I was on vacation back then and lost all contacts with the outside world no TV, no internet, no even phones.
Ok. There are 13 incidents for Russia and 8 incidents for US in your list. These numbers are comparable the only major difference is that we have two really bad incidents with terrible casualities.

And let's see top ten most disasterous crushes this year:
1) Lockheed C-130H Hercules Moroccan AF 80 dead
2) Boeing 727-286 Iran Air 77 dead
3) Boeing 727-030 (WL) Hewa Bora Airways 74 dead
4) Tupolev Tu-134A-3 RusAir 47 dead
5) Yakovlev 42D YAK Service 43 dead
6) Canadair CL-600-2B19 Regional Georgian Airways, opf.UN 32 dead
7) Xian MA60 Merpati Nusantara 25 dead
8) Saab 340A SOL LÃneas Aéreas 22 dead
9) CASA C-212 Aviocar 300DF Chilean AF 21 dead
10) Let L-410UVP-E20 NOAR Linhas Aéreas 16 dead

So, there are two Russian planes in this list, one Chinese and the rest SEVEN are western designs. And Russian planes are not top killers as most of you think. Top three killers are American designs: Boeing-727 and Lockheed C-130 (though C-130 is not a comericial aircraft but it's designed to carry cargo and troops and wasn't lost in combat due to enemy fire, but just crushed).
My point was to show that such tragedies could happen anywhere in the World with any planes and Russia and Russian planes are not something special. This is just happens and it's terrible. So, there is no single real reason to demonize Russian planes.

[Asher]

Serb, I understand your wish to defend Russian planes, but you need to understand the difference of scale.

There are very few Russian planes compared to the American ones. Yet they crash quite often.

[Serb]

Not that few as you might think. Surely there are much more American planes than Russian. But Soviet Union had a huge aircraft industry and built a lot of aircrafts which still in service. Let's get back to this list of top killers (positions two, three and four).
This year Boeing-727 killed 151 people in two crashes. "As of July 2010, 398 Boeing 727 aircraft (all variants) were in commercial airline service".
Tu-134 killed 47 people in one crush. "As of 5 July 2011 a total of 233 Tupolev Tu-134 aircraft (all variants) remain in airline service".

The info about active Boeing-727s is one YEAR obsolete. So we can assume that in 2011 there are much lesser 727s still in service than in 2010. Still, 398 vs 233 is pretty comparable numbers. Ok, 398/233= 1.7. Let's make it 1.5 (cause info is obsolete). So there are 1.5 times more 727s then Tu-134s, but 727s killed 151 people, while Tu-134s killed 47 that means 727s killed over three times (3.2) more then Tu-134s.
You see the scale now?
1.5 times more planes, but kills 3 times more people. It's very simple math really.

[Az]

Does not surprise me at all - these planes are ancient as ****. I actually have no claims against Soviet and Russian plane craftsmanship. My comment was directed at the poor maintenance and fuel procedures, usually in the smaller Russian airlines, that are probably similar to other airlines that fly in poorer countries, that is all...

[Zoetstofzoetje]

i flew with a russian proppelerplane once in germany. the comfy leather seats were the only stable thing on that thing. ever since i check my plane type.

[Asher]

Man, this is depressing.

http://eliteprospects.com/team.php?team=191

[Serb]

It's Alexander Viyukhin, not Olexander. And he was their goalie #1 last season (they won bronze with him last season). They have signed Stefan Live (Sweden national team goalie, Tourino-2006 Olympic champion) for this season, but he didn't play a single official game for Lokomotiv. That supposed to be his first game for the new club. May them both rest in peace. I'll go to the funeral of Alexander tommorow morning. Our local hockey society is in deep mouring. He was one of the few legendary figures for us who didicated ten years of his life, the best years of his career to defend the colours of our Avangard hockey club.

edited: Also, Robert Dietrich's nation should be Russia/Germany. His parents migrated from the Soviet Union when he was a child before the fall of USSR and creation of Kazakhstan. He had a dual citizenship (Russian and German), but played for the national team of Germany. He wasn't a citizen of Kazakhstan nor he or his parents were etnic Kazakhs (they are "Russian Germans").

[Felch]

Thanks for statistics.

Third crush was a cargo plane. I honestly didn't know about the June crash in Karelia. I was on vacation back then and lost all contacts with the outside world no TV, no internet, no even phones.
Ok. There are 13 incidents for Russia and 8 incidents for US in your list. These numbers are comparable the only major difference is that we have two really bad incidents with terrible casualities.

And let's see top ten most disasterous crushes this year:
1) Lockheed C-130H Hercules Moroccan AF 80 dead
2) Boeing 727-286 Iran Air 77 dead
3) Boeing 727-030 (WL) Hewa Bora Airways 74 dead
4) Tupolev Tu-134A-3 RusAir 47 dead
5) Yakovlev 42D YAK Service 43 dead
6) Canadair CL-600-2B19 Regional Georgian Airways, opf.UN 32 dead
7) Xian MA60 Merpati Nusantara 25 dead
8) Saab 340A SOL LÃneas Aéreas 22 dead
9) CASA C-212 Aviocar 300DF Chilean AF 21 dead
10) Let L-410UVP-E20 NOAR Linhas Aéreas 16 dead

So, there are two Russian planes in this list, one Chinese and the rest SEVEN are western designs. And Russian planes are not top killers as most of you think. Top three killers are American designs: Boeing-727 and Lockheed C-130 (though C-130 is not a comericial aircraft but it's designed to carry cargo and troops and wasn't lost in combat due to enemy fire, but just crushed).
My point was to show that such tragedies could happen anywhere in the World with any planes and Russia and Russian planes are not something special. This is just happens and it's terrible. So, there is no single real reason to demonize Russian planes.

Those crashed western designs are being flown by Morocco, Iran, the DRC, Georgia, and at the bottom you see Mexico and Chile. I don't think anybody is criticizing Russian design, the problem is with safety procedures and such. All your list shows is that Western airlines are some of the safest in the world. Russian designs are certainly robust, probably more so than American designs. But lax maintenance and safety procedures can contribute to disasters like this.

[Asher]

Not that few as you might think. Surely there are much more American planes than Russian. But Soviet Union had a huge aircraft industry and built a lot of aircrafts which still in service. Let's get back to this list of top killers (positions two, three and four).
This year Boeing-727 killed 151 people in two crashes. "As of July 2010, 398 Boeing 727 aircraft (all variants) were in commercial airline service".
Tu-134 killed 47 people in one crush. "As of 5 July 2011 a total of 233 Tupolev Tu-134 aircraft (all variants) remain in airline service".

The info about active Boeing-727s is one YEAR obsolete. So we can assume that in 2011 there are much lesser 727s still in service than in 2010. Still, 398 vs 233 is pretty comparable numbers. Ok, 398/233= 1.7. Let's make it 1.5 (cause info is obsolete). So there are 1.5 times more 727s then Tu-134s, but 727s killed 151 people, while Tu-134s killed 47 that means 727s killed over three times (3.2) more then Tu-134s.
You see the scale now?
1.5 times more planes, but kills 3 times more people. It's very simple math really.

727s are over 20 years older. The planes in service are largely third world African nations, etc using 40+ year old 727s.

[Serb]

Those crashed western designs are being flown by Morocco, Iran, the DRC, Georgia, and at the bottom you see Mexico and Chile. I don't think anybody is criticizing Russian design, the problem is with safety procedures and such. All your list shows is that Western airlines are some of the safest in the world. Russian designs are certainly robust, probably more so than American designs. But lax maintenance and safety procedures can contribute to disasters like this.

If you'll check that list more closely you'll see that it's not about lack of maintenance and safety procedures or mechanical failures or anything else, it's all about weather conditions.