New NASA Data Blow Gaping Hole In Global Warming Alarmism

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Who would have suspected that low altitude cloud formation and their albedo effects were (and continue to be) a big unknown? Shocked!

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[MikeH]

I don't think that is a big story really.

He knows that anything about cosmic rays and clouds is massive news fodder for climate change skeptics. And so doesn't want people making proclamations about it... even without any commentary people are using it as fodder but AFAIK all the observational evidence still suggests it's not a factor, regardless of whether they can create cloud structures in other experiments:

http://www.skepticalscience.com/cosmic-rays-and-global-warming.htm

[The Mad Monk]

So why not interpret the results? These are (presumably) the best able to properly do that work, so to me it is irresponsible to just throw the data out there.

[MikeH]

Also it seems he asked CERN scientists to be clear in any statements, rather than told them not to make any statements at all. Which is a big difference.

I guess "CERN Boss asks scientists to be very careful what they say about this stuff 'cause anti-climate change propaganda machine ready to seize upon any imprecise message as massive news story" is a less sexy headline.

[dannubis]

For the sceptics:

The question is not "Is the gun loaded ?"

The question is "Would you look down the barrel of a gun and pull the trigger if you were not sure if it is loaded ?"

[MikeH]

So why not interpret the results? These are (presumably) the best able to properly do that work, so to me it is irresponsible to just throw the data out there.

Why are they best placed to interpret the results?

Nice article on the paper:

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2011/08/the-cerncloud-results-are-surprisingly-interesting/

[The Mad Monk]

Dannubis: Considering the direct correlation between the increase in CO2 producing processes and human prosperity, I am forced to ask which gun you mean.

[dannubis]

The one you like to ignore...

[The Mad Monk]

I ignore nothing. It's a burden.

[dannubis]

Yes a burden that if responsible for climate change will not affect you as much as some poor ****er in bangladesh.

Besides, since when was an increasing prosperity level a handicap for making progress ?

[The Mad Monk]

Handicapping properity is what will handicap progress, we're seeing that now.

Why isn't Bangladesh like the Netherlands? That's what I'm trying to figure out.

[dannubis]

Well, sticking your head in the sand isn't going to help creating long term progress. Of course this inconveniences you now.

I guess you are trying to figure out is that if we try to minimize our CO2 footprint (until we find better alternatives) Bangladesh will never know economic prosperity ?

[The Mad Monk]

How long is long-term? Every great age of discovery occured because societies had enough extra resources to allow smart people to dick around with things. The industrial revolution put that into overdrive. Now is what the future is built on.

The Dutch live on land that is below sea level now. They have recovered land from the sea. They did it all centuries ago.

[dannubis]

1. Yes. And why does it imply that when one is carefull with polution suddenly excess resources would disappear ? Einstein didn't have an airconditioning system. You confuse "excessive luxury" and "problem-free life" with necessary resources. You can't honestly not believe that if Asia continues its current development we all have to do with less?

2. Yes I know. Funny that you mention the Dutch BTW. Due to the fact that they reclaimed marches close to their river system, the soil actually "sank" from above to below sealevel in large swats of hinterland. If they hadn't dryed out all marches that land would still be above sealevel. Long term versus now.

[The Mad Monk]

Lovely collection of strawmen you have there. Leonardo Da Vinci and Plato didn't have air conditioning either. What they did have was the opportunity to live and use their minds without having to plow a field or drive cattle. The more people a society can afford to have in that position, the faster it will advance.

No one is talking about excessive luxury except you. Also, curbing CO2 in the amounts I hear being thrown about isn't "being careful with pollution", it's removing vital energy sources with no practical or politically possible alternatives ready. The only reason Asia can develop at the pace they are is because they aren't afraid to use coal, so where is your concern with pollution there?

Can you understand my Netherlands versus Bangledesh example yet, or do I have to use small words?