Thread in which pro-lifers explain why they're not hypocrits for being anti-universal healthcare

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

But that does nothing to limit the growing costs of health care. Only when people actually have to pay for things will the market respond.



This is a problem, and it needs to be addressed. Throwing more money at it will only further distort the economy.

I am unconvinced that pure market reactions wold be sufficent to significanlty lower the costs. Undue costs from governmental regulation and litigation avoidance need to part of the solution as well.

[Felch]

Tort reform would be nice, but the question is how do you provide a basic level of care to everybody? Letting some people spend unlimited money is wasteful, and it doesn't protect the whole population. We live in a country where millions of people can't afford a doctor, while millions of others are consuming unlimited medical resources at virtually no cost. Why not let everybody get some reasonable amount of medical care, and then let those who can afford it get the more expensive treatment? Universal medical care is in everybody's interest, because it helps contain the spread of contagious disease.

[Felch]

The problem with that is that everyone would need to have insurance (for the reasons cited).

It might be better than what we have now, but unless our insurance system got fixed it wouldn't really constrain our costs I think.

I guess if it was high enough so that many people didn't think they needed insurance.... maybe it would be OK then?

Say
$3000 per year (and rolls over) and people can get additional (100k/etc) insurance on top of that? (But the insurance is like life insurance/etc, it isn't subsidized by the employers/state like it is currently).

JM

Someone posted a chart in another thread that showed average spending per person per year. The US is up around 6000, while Europe was around 2500-4000. 3000 might be a little low, and I also think that early childhood treatment (under 5) should be unlimited, but the idea is to allow the very poor free treatment, without giving people unlimited access to a limited resource. Insurance that acts like disaster insurance might be good, but the free health account should be plenty for most people. You'll be covered for routine care, immunizations and the like, while also having a little extra for the occasional hospital visit.

[MikeH]

People typically need virtually no care for years, then occasional bouts of massively expensive care. A small pot for each person isn't really going to help, anyone with a serious illness is still going to be financially ruined.

[MikeH]

AFAIK Under no system, not even the best insurance coverages in the US system, does anyone have unlimited access to treatment.

[Jon Miller]

People typically need virtually no care for years, then occasional bouts of massively expensive care. A small pot for each person isn't really going to help, anyone with a serious illness is still going to be financially ruined.

There is a point to Felch's statement though. A lot of preventative care costs a little bit. You put in the 1000-2000 a year for preventative care. I would say 2000.

Then you can get private insurance, which the government isn't involved in at all, for everything else? Not subsidized/etc of course (from the person who has it, not the employer, too).

Not my preferred method, but is probably better than what we have.

JM

[Jon Miller]

AFAIK Under no system, not even the best insurance coverages in the US system, does anyone have unlimited access to treatment.

It can get pretty good when you have 2-4 good insurances...

JM

[MikeH]

Preventative care doesn't cost 2000 a year in a healthy person. Even if you have a full physical once a year plus any shots you might need.

And our full cost for NHS care including everything isn't much more than that.

[MikeH]

I'm probably paying more than that to subsidise lower earners. Which is good.

[Jon Miller]

Preventative care doesn't cost 2000 a year in a healthy person. Even if you have a full physical once a year plus any shots you might need.

And our full cost for NHS care including everything isn't much more than that.

Hmm, good point.

JM

[Barnabas]

I think abortion is infanticide and support universal healthcare.

[Guynemer]

One of the reasons health care costs so much in the US is that doctors get paid a ****load more money here. And the reason for that is that medical schools cost a ****load more money here.

If we want to cut health care costs, we're going to have to do something about education costs.

[MikeH]

And your Liability Insurance costs a ****load more money.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

I think abortion is infanticide and support universal healthcare.

I support a womans right to choose and oppose universal health care as a natural right.

[giblets]

Because universal healthcare is really just rationing such that everyone gets lower quality care to ensure that no one gets better care than anyone else?

That's really all there is to it.

I don't think anyone could possibly hope to write a worse summary of universal healthcare. Hats off to you, I guess. I just wonder why your high school was ranked #1 in the country. Well, if your older brother went there then maybe it's not such a bad school.