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Top U.S. Military Officer: Iran Is In a Shooting War With America. OK, Where’s the Policy Response?

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  • Top U.S. Military Officer: Iran Is In a Shooting War With America. OK, Where’s the Policy Response?

    Let’s pretend we are living in a sane and normal era with a sane and normal U.S. government. In that context, read the following paragraph from the Wall Street Journal and then let’s think out loud about it.

    “The top U.S. military officer accused Iran…of shipping new supplies of deadly weapons to its militia allies in Iraq, in what he described as Tehran’s bid to take credit for forcing American troops to go home….`Iran is very directly supporting extremist Shiite groups which are killing our troops,’ said Adm[iral] Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. `There is no question they are shipping high-tech weapons in there…that are killing our people. And the forensics prove that.’”

    Let’s begin with an abstract approach. The government of Country A is sending weapons to forces attacking Country B. Country B is in fact pulling out of territory and doesn’t want a war. Nevertheless, Country A is escalating its aggression so it can claim the withdrawal as a great victory. Why? Because the government of Country A doesn’t want peace; it wants to destroy Country B and hates it so passionately that no conciliation is possible.

    Wow, this is so familiar! Where else in the Middle East have I heard about this pattern?

    Back to the Iraq case. What does the United States do about the fact that it has proof of a war being waged against it by Iran? I’m not proposing the United States go to war with Iran at all. That would be a mistake, no question about it. But how about a few time-tested activities like these:

    –The United States stages some covert operations to discomfit Iran’s regime? Some economic sabotage, a few oil fields or factories have…problems. The message is: If you want this to stop, don’t attack us. You escalate; we escalate.

    –The U.S. government tells all of its allies, trading partners, and anyone it can influence that sanctions against Iran of all types are going to go to the absolute maximum and that Washington will tolerate no breaches, including from China, Russia, Turkey, and the United Arab Emirates.

    –The U.S. ambassador to the UN goes to the General Assembly (as Ambassador Adlai Stevenson did over the Cuban missile crisis) and presents the evidence of Iran’s terrorism in Iraq and aid to al-Qaida, demanding strong action.

    –The U.S. government tells the Turkish regime to stop cooperating with Iran. Will the Turkish government get angry and claim that its sovereignty and dignity have been violated? Yep. And then, if the costs are high enough, it might back down in some material ways.

    –The president of the United States goes on television and says, “My fellow Americans….” to lay out the case against Iran, including the “forensics.” He explains that even though America does not want a conflict that one is being forced on it by its enemies. And then he lists Iran’s allies in this anti-American effort: Syria, Hamas, and Hizballah. He will tell the American people what U.S. intelligence has known for years: that Iran is sheltering al-Qaida leaders and letting them use its territory as a safe haven from which to organize attacks against Americans.

    –And in line with that presentation, the United States tells Israel that it supports stronger sanctions on the Gaza Strip; refuses to recognize or give aid to a Hizballah (Syria, Iran)-dominated government in Lebanon (which has just officially taken office); gives strong support to the Lebanese opposition; breaks relations with Syria and does everything possible in terms of sanctions against that government while supporting the democratic elements in the opposition.

    I suspect that not one thing on this list will happen. The problem is with the specific government now in place in the White House, not the fact that it is a Democratic Party president or a supposedly liberal president. In the background is the dominant ideology nowadays in the United States which throws out the window all of the traditional attitudes and tools used by previous presidents–realpolitik, deterrence, power politics, supporting your friends, and punishing your enemies.

    One might call it a combination of proud-to-be-weak, America-is-too-evil-to-be-a-world-leader, old-fashioned appeasement, and left-wing “neo-conservatism.”

    A government that will not protect the soldiers it has sent into danger by acting against those who would kill them does not deserve to lead those troops. Admiral Mullen knows it (his statement above sounds like a plea for help from Congress and the American people) and so does the recently resigned Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, and so does everyone who works at the Pentagon and serves in the U.S. armed forces. But they cannot speak publicly because they are serving. That’s the real “Don’t ask, don’t tell policy.”

    Go back and read that paragraph about what Mullen said. Revolutionary Islamism, Iran, the Muslim Brotherhood, and others are at war with the United States. America needs a president who recognizes that fact and will do something about it.
    Last edited by Zevico; July 8, 2011, 21:20.
    "You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."--General Sir Charles James Napier

  • #2
    wow... I think you deserve to go to Iraq and fight for their freedom and in the process, make a one man assault on Iran
    Socrates: "Good is That at which all things aim, If one knows what the good is, one will always do what is good." Brian: "Romanes eunt domus"
    GW 2013: "and juistin bieber is gay with me and we have 10 kids we live in u.s.a in the white house with obama"

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    • #3
      According a classified report, America ships weapons to Jewish extremists in the ME.
      In Soviet Russia, Fake borises YOU.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave View Post
        wow... I think you deserve to go to Iraq and fight for their freedom and in the process, make a one man assault on Iran
        maybe zevico and barry rubin could go together, those poor iranians wouldn't stand a chance .
        "The Christian way has not been tried and found wanting, it has been found to be hard and left untried" - GK Chesterton.

        "The most obvious predicition about the future is that it will be mostly like the past" - Alain de Botton

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        • #5
          Zevico
          If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
          ){ :|:& };:

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          • #6


            Ticking off the Iranian people will never do America any good.


            And ****ing with the democratically-elected government of Lebanon is extremely questionable but is par for the course for Israel. Sounds like you just want the US to be an extension of Israeli policy.
            "Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
            "I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi

            Comment


            • #7
              "I suspect that not one thing on this list will happen. The problem is with the specific government now in place in the White House, not the fact that it is a Democratic Party president or a supposedly liberal president.
              America needs a president who recognizes that fact and will do something about it."
              Hmm. When did Iran start taking all of these actions against the US. I believe it was when the war in Iraq started not when President Obama took office. Question, why did'nt President Bush go ahead and shut them down early so they would not be the problem that you speak of now. Damn, it seems like you are holding the current President more accountable than the last.
              I while you can criticize the President for his job, at least acknowledge that the last administration was not effective in dealing with the problems that President Obama is facing today. In fact, almost all of the major problems faced today are leftover from the last administration. One of my bosses used to say that when you get to a new job you need to find a project(problem) and work on it(fix it). What was Bushs' great project? My point is we don't need a new President. We need to give the President we have more time and power to fix the problems because it's apparent that there are really only two groups that matter in Washington and the last group ****ed things up so bad that we are still dealing with it today.
              What can make a nigga wanna fight a whole night club/Figure that he ought to maybe be a pimp simply 'cause he don't like love/What can make a nigga wanna achy, break all rules/In a book when it took a lot to get you hooked up to this volume/
              What can make a nigga wanna loose all faith in/Anything that he can't feel through his chest wit sensation

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Pax View Post
                Hmm. When did Iran start taking all of these actions against the US. I believe it was when the war in Iraq started not when President Obama took office.
                No, Iran's foreign policy has been anti-American ever since the revolution. They took the members of the American embassy hostage..
                Question, why did'nt President Bush go ahead and shut them down early so they would not be the problem that you speak of now.
                Question, why do you think this is a question of Bush vs Obama?

                Damn, it seems like you are holding the current President more accountable than the last.
                For what? And why? And does it even matter? And why does it seem that way, in any case? From whence does this assumption about my views on Bush's foreign policy stem?
                while you can criticize the President for his job, at least acknowledge that the last administration was not effective in dealing with the problems that President Obama is facing today.
                "The" problems? All of them, by and of necessity, merely because that was the approach Bush took? Well, no. Bush's foreign policy had many problems, no doubt about it, but that has nothing to do with whether Obama is addressing the problems that he faces and whether another candidate of greater acumen might present a better approach.
                My point is we don't need a new President. We need to give the President we have more time and power to fix the problems because it's apparent that there are really only two groups that matter in Washington and the last group ****ed things up so bad that we are still dealing with it today.
                More time will not magically make a foolish policy wiser.
                The President you have has enunciated a foreign policy approach that doesn't address any of the issues outlined in the analysis quoted above. The President you have doesn't plan to address any of those issues. The President you have has declined to take a strong line against the Iranian government.
                You assume that a Republican candidate will naturally adopt Bush's policies and idiosyncracies. This is as wise as assuming that Obama would adopt Bill Clinton's, or that Bush Jr. will adopt Bush Sr.'s, or that Clinton would naturally adopt Carter's. Each of these individuals had their own foreign policy approach, premised not on their moods or whims, but on their clearly expressed foreign policy philosophy.
                "You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."--General Sir Charles James Napier

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Al B. Sure! View Post
                  Sounds like you just want the US to be an extension of Israeli policy.
                  Fascinating. Elsewhere, Asher accused me of being an "Amerophile." Now you say I simply want the United States to be "an extension of"--in other words, an arm of--Israeli policy. So am I an Amerophile or an Israelophile, or both?
                  I also find the use of the word "sounds like" and "seems" in these conversations interesting. Well, do I want the US to be an extension of Israeli policy or not?
                  "You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."--General Sir Charles James Napier

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Al B. Sure! View Post


                    Ticking off the Iranian people will never do America any good.


                    And ****ing with the democratically-elected government of Lebanon is extremely questionable but is par for the course for Israel. Sounds like you just want the US to be an extension of Israeli policy.
                    It doesn't matter how many miles you run or how straight-edge you are. You will never be a Marine until you change this anti-war hippie ****ing attitude of yours. Marines kill, and they don't ***** about the rights and wrongs of foreign policy. Get with the ****ing program.
                    John Brown did nothing wrong.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Zevico View Post
                      Fascinating. Elsewhere, Asher accused me of being an "Amerophile." Now you say I simply want the United States to be "an extension of"--in other words, an arm of--Israeli policy. So am I an Amerophile or an Israelophile, or both?
                      I also find the use of the word "sounds like" and "seems" in these conversations interesting. Well, do I want the US to be an extension of Israeli policy or not?
                      Asher has a fiction of what he thinks America is. You're an Israelophile.
                      "Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
                      "I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Zevico,
                        Of course, the Iranians were no longer our friends when they had their revolution. I'm talking about the current level of hostilities. That came once we invaded Iraq.
                        Government policy is made by compromise. The more power the less compromising. I believe that with less compromising we will see more effective policy.
                        Felch,
                        I don't want to speak out of turn as far as marines. I know a lot of them. I'm not one. They are trained to kill. Some might say born to kill. But at some point in time they must be able to think and make good decisions. This goes double for a leader. I would not recommend that Al talk politics around his men, other officers or his commanders but he can have his opinions and he should have a place where he can voice them. In fact, it's bad manners to talk religion and politics in a navy wardroom. While I was in the military, I did not agree with the war in Iraq and I said so to my other Officer friends while we were not on the front lines and had built up a level of friendship that went beyond work. I'm sure Al would know better than to sow dissent and distrust of his leadership among his men by telling them that he does not want to fight or does not believe in the fight. My JROTC instructor 1st Sgt Hearndon, once told me that He did not like going to war but the soldier should be the last one to want to fight but the first one ready to finish it.
                        Lastly, there is a war going on. If Al, is willing to attempt to be a marine, let's let the Drill Instructors decide if he has what it takes. I went to Navy OCS and the Gunny Sergeants are skilled at finding the ones that don't belong. As Americans or Polys or whatever we should be giving him our support, wishing success and a safe return.
                        What can make a nigga wanna fight a whole night club/Figure that he ought to maybe be a pimp simply 'cause he don't like love/What can make a nigga wanna achy, break all rules/In a book when it took a lot to get you hooked up to this volume/
                        What can make a nigga wanna loose all faith in/Anything that he can't feel through his chest wit sensation

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Pax
                          "Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
                          "I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Al B. Sure! View Post
                            Asher has a fiction of what he thinks America is. You're an Israelophile.
                            Well, if I remember correctly Asher has spent substantial time living in America. So it might be more of an opinion.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Pax View Post
                              Felch,
                              I don't want to speak out of turn as far as marines. I know a lot of them. I'm not one. They are trained to kill. Some might say born to kill. But at some point in time they must be able to think and make good decisions. This goes double for a leader. I would not recommend that Al talk politics around his men, other officers or his commanders but he can have his opinions and he should have a place where he can voice them. In fact, it's bad manners to talk religion and politics in a navy wardroom. While I was in the military, I did not agree with the war in Iraq and I said so to my other Officer friends while we were not on the front lines and had built up a level of friendship that went beyond work. I'm sure Al would know better than to sow dissent and distrust of his leadership among his men by telling them that he does not want to fight or does not believe in the fight. My JROTC instructor 1st Sgt Hearndon, once told me that He did not like going to war but the soldier should be the last one to want to fight but the first one ready to finish it.
                              Lastly, there is a war going on. If Al, is willing to attempt to be a marine, let's let the Drill Instructors decide if he has what it takes. I went to Navy OCS and the Gunny Sergeants are skilled at finding the ones that don't belong. As Americans or Polys or whatever we should be giving him our support, wishing success and a safe return.
                              It's nice of you to stand up for Albie, but I'm not actually against him joining the Corps. I'm just ripping on him.
                              John Brown did nothing wrong.

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